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RE: [Axiom-developer] [TeXmacs]

From: Page, Bill
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] [TeXmacs]
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:48:04 -0500

On Monday, December 20, 2004 6:13 AM address@hidden
> Bill Page wrote:
> > 
> > You will notice that in the full expression, the first term
> > of the numerator has been folded locally at the \cdot into
> > two lines with a leading minus sign vertically centered on
> > the right like this
> > 
> >    b^2x^2\sqrt{3} \cdot
> > -                         +  2b^2x^2\sqrt{3}log(sqrt[3]{-a^2} ...
> >    \log(sqrt[3]{-a^2}^2 ...
> > 
> > This type of "nested folding" is actually built in to Robert
> > Sutor's algorithm. There may be an option that I am not
> > explicitly  setting which controls this type of behaviour.
> Ah OK ! you are right, everything is there, although the 
> formula is nonsense when read normally. So, on this example,
> it is Sutor's algorithm that is broken, and TeXmacs 
> renders Sutor's output correctly, except that it imports 
> incorrectly the "l" parameter of arrays into a "c" parameter.

Could you please explain the use of the "l" and "c" parameters?

> In Sutor's output, the three lines you mention are constructed
> as an array embedded in the main array, and it seems there is
> an end of line \\ which is inserted incorrectly inside this
> embedded array, while it ought to be after the \end{array}.
> Otherwise, there ought to be a \left( just before the embedded
> array, and a \right) after its end, for the LaTeX output to be
> correct mathematically ; and this is apparently not what was 
> intended, as these are absent, and as the rest of formula is 
> on the right instead of being below.

I think Sutor's logic for splitting long products is slightly
different than for splitting sums and that might explain some
of the difference (e.g. absence of parenthesis). Would you be
willing to send me some hand modified LaTeX coding for this
example so that we are both completely clear on what you are
proposing. In that case I will attempt to analyze the
linebreak program and make the necessary changes.

> > See also the web page at
> > 
> >
> > 
> > I am glad to see that all of these examples work on MathAction
> > since MathAction is actually using LaTeX internally to do the
> > formatting. So this represents a reasonable "benchmark" against
> > which to compare the TeXmacs output.
> Well, I don't really agree on this point ? For me, the last 
> formula on the web page does not appear "a little odd at first
> sight", it appears incomprehensible... 

Ok, let's fix it.

> > I think that the more we (Axiom developers) depend on TeXmacs,
> > the more we must be prepared to try to help maintain TeXmacs -
> > just as we already have a great (sometimes two-way) relationship
> > with the GCL developers, on which the current version of Axiom
> > strongly depends ... :)
> While Axiom depends on gcl, it does not depend on TeXmacs.

Actually in principle Axiom has been built with many different
lisp environments in the past and Tim has plans to support
several of these again, so technically Axiom does not depend
on gcl either. My point was only that open source development
presumes an active co-operative relationship between related

> I think we ought to privilege rigor, not ease of use.

I agree whole heartedly!

> For education or training with Axiom, TeXmacs is very nice.
> But for research, in my opinion, the default editor for 
> Axiom ought to be Emacs, not TeXmacs.

What do you find more attractive about Emacs for research?

I am not familiar with running Axiom in Emacs but I would
like to learn and also to document it for other users.
I have set up a new [User Interface] page on MathAction
where I hope to describe the different user interface options
available for Axiom. Would you be willing to take a look at

and perhaps edit it to include some basic instructions for
Emacs users?

> Some adaptation to Axiom of imaxima.el, by Jesper Harder,
> would be vey nice, as it relies on TeX itself, and the new
> version of Emacs allows to include images, on Linux and
> Windows. So, beautiful output and rigor can coexist.

Can you tell me or point me to instructions on how to
install and set up Emacs on windows to access Maxima and
use imaxima.el? I experimented with this about 6 months
ago but I did not get very far. As I recall I had some
difficulty especially installing the imaxima component.
But I would like to try again. I am hoping also to learn
enough about the interface to Maxima in order to also
provide a Maxima interface on MathAction.

Bill Page.

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