Re: [Axiom-mail] Abstract Vector Algebra

[Gabriel Dos Reis]

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:01 AM, u1204 <address@hidden> wrote:
> Gaby,
>
>>> I will note that the NSF will not fund open source projects.
>>> Science can only occur if you are at a University. Sigh.
>>
>>I don't know why you are saying that, NSF certainly has been
>>funding many open source projects, as long as they enable or
>>they are part of fundamental research.  Check out the projects
>>that made it through this program:
>>
>>   http://www.nsf.gov/funding/pgm_summ.jsp?pims_id=504817
>
> Thanks for the link. Quote from that page:
>
>  "SI^2 envisions vibrant partnerships among academia, government
>   laboratories and industry, including international entities,
>   for the development and stewardship of sustainable software
>   ..."
>
> Both Open-Axiom (you) and FriCAS (Waldek) are university related
> and university supported efforts. Axiom is pure open source with
> no affilations.
>
> I'm saying what I said as an almost direct quote from the person
> at NSF responsible for the relevant program. And from the person
> before that. I tried for several years. I also tried at NIST in
> relation to the Mathematical Handbook. I would like to see
> algorithms in the handbook and thought I could find funding there.
>
> The issue seems to be that there needs to be someone who can handle the
> receipts. At a University (e.g. CCNY where I used to work) the provost
> did that.  Grants to your university fund students.  Open source
> projects not associated with a university don't have the required
> accounting setup.

NSF's mission

   http://www.nsf.gov/nsf/nsfpubs/straplan/mission.htm

is defined by law.  You would have to make a case that your proposal
fits its mission, e.g. strongly argue the research aspects of it. I do
not claim it is easy.  That also entails that you would have to be very
specific, and make convincing case of intellectual merits and broader
impacts that advance the mission of NSF.

If you go through the list of projects that made it through that
program, you will notice that the vast majority of them are open source.


Also, this is an aside, but I don't think one can convincingly
argue a notion of "pure open source."

> I approached IBM (where I used to work) with the suggestion that they
> set up a very small (e.g. 2 person) "open source support" organization,
> not specifically related to Axiom, which had the job of receiving the
> NSF grant money and handling receipts. The accountants would be paid out
> of the grant money, similar to the way the provost took over 50% of my
> grant for "overhead". I also approached Texas Instruments and Hewlett
> Packard. I suppose I should have approached Google but my frustration
> level just got too high.

I can't comment on that.  Each organization has its own policy
regarding dealing with funding agencies and contracts matters.

>
> This isn't money for programming. It would be grant money to have
> conferences, travel expenses, website support, and code sprints.
> The only direct cash payments would go to summer-of-code-like projects.
>
> It is much more costly but way less frustrating to just fund it myself.

I understand.  Working on AXIOM is a full time job.

-- Gaby