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bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-bro
From: |
martin rudalics |
Subject: |
bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless |
Date: |
Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:21:13 +0100 |
> Yes, I said:
>
> Probably we will need to leave the original name for the current
> behavior, but if it could be aliased to something with "help" in
> the name, and then the original name deprecated, that would be better.
> (I think that's part of what you suggest.) And create a new name
> for the temp-without-the-help-stuff case.
>
> If you read the whole thread for bug #8368 then you will understand.
> Is the current discussion about fixing bug #8368? If you fix that
> problem as requested, great.
>
> I'm all in favor of what was requested in bug #8368. The name of
> `with-output-to-temp-buffer' is not good. That macro has been abused
> for a long time by stuffing help-related stuff into it.
>
> That does not mean that we shouldn't have a macro that does what
> `with-output-to-temp-buffer' does. And as noted above, users should
> be encouraged, over time, to use the new, "help"-related name.
>
> If you have a complete fix for bug #8368, fine - please go for it.
> That is not what I think I am seeing in the bug #16038 thread.
>
> Fixing bug #8368 includes not only renaming `with-output-to-temp-buffer'
> to something like `with-output-to-help-buffer' - AND fixing its doc
> to reflect what it really does - it is about help, but ALSO doing
> the same for any other `*-temp-*' things that really are `-*help*-'
> things.
>
> And, in particular, ALSO create real temporary-buffer facilities,
> including a real `with-output-to-temp-buffer' (but renamed, to
> avoid confusion), unencumbered by help-related stuff.
>
> IOW, fix the names and doc of the misnamed `*-temp-*' things to
> reflect the fact that they are about help. AND create real
> temporary-buffer things that are unrelated to help.
>
> I stressed the bit about creating real temporary-buffer things:
>
> The point of the last part is that there is a need for creating
> and using temporary buffers. That should never have been co-opted
> for help, but now that it is we should fix it properly: (a) call
> a spade a spade and (b) create new macros for really dealing with
> temporary buffers.
>
> And a year later...
>
> Can we please move forward on fixing this bug?
> There is lots of stuff in a "temp" buffer now that has nothing to
> do with a temporary buffer. All of the special help link and
> navigation commands should be reserved for a help mode that is
> _derived_ from a (minimal) temporary buffer mode.
>
> And later...
>
> I was pretty clear that the names are not what is most important
> to me. What matters most is to have a macro that does only the
> non-help stuff, separate from the macro that does also the help
> stuff.
>
> And this, especially pertinent to the current discussion:
>
> Deprecation does not mean immediate desupport, and it might not
> ever imply desupport. It means that what is deprecated _might_ be
> desupported at some time in the future.
>
> So users of the old name are not impacted. It's just a heads-up
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> to users. They are forewarned that they might want to update the
> name sooner rather than later. But they _need not_ do so until
> desupport happens, if it ever does. The new, preferred name is
> what will be documented and increasingly used for new code etc.
>
> Can you explain how bug #16038 relates to bug #8368? Is the latter
> being fixed by the fix by the fix for the former?
>
> Yes, I would like to see bug #8368 fixed. And I notice that some
> of what was pointed out in the #8368 report seems to be rediscovered
> now for bug #16038. #8368 is still a bug, AFAIK.
Maybe you should try to fix this problem:
> But I have no code that uses `with-temp-buffer-window'.
martin
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, (continued)
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Leo Liu, 2014/01/21
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Stefan Monnier, 2014/01/21
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Leo Liu, 2014/01/21
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Stefan Monnier, 2014/01/22
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Leo Liu, 2014/01/23
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/23
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Leo Liu, 2014/01/24
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/24
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/24
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/24
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless,
martin rudalics <=
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/26
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/26
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/27
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/27
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Glenn Morris, 2014/01/21