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RE: [Bug-gnubg] Resign bug

From: Albert Silver
Subject: RE: [Bug-gnubg] Resign bug
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:44:10 -0300

I'd suggest you guys try to relax a bit. I'll add that similar problems
occur in chess programs though a bit differently, and this has also been
subject to debate. The most obvious one is when the program sees a very
strong, and probably deep threat, and tries to minimize the damage. For
example, it will suddenly see that you have a strong threat of mate in 8
(which you aren't even close to having seen) so the program starts to do
anything within its power to delay this disaster and begins sacrificing
massive amounts of material, leading to an equally lost position of
course. In the user's eyes, it looks like the program suddenly went
crazy for no good reason and out of the blue began sacrificing its
rooks, pieces, etc. The program's behavior will be identical whether
this is a fairly obvious threat of mate in 3 or a monstrous mate in 23.
The result was that many many users have complained about this over the
years for 95% of the programs released. What has the developers'
reaction been? A few, maybe 2-3 programs, have implemented special code
dealing with these situations to humanize them. The vast majority of
others continue to have the 'problem'. The other practical side is that
when users win such games, they more often don't complain, since they
soon realize the reason, and just show their friends how them forced the
program to capitulate due to their mate in 23 threat (which they never
saw). :-)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ric [mailto:address@hidden
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 9:09 AM
> To: address@hidden
> Cc: address@hidden; 'Albert Silver'
> Subject: RE: [Bug-gnubg] Resign bug
> Joseph,
> It's too bad you feel you have to be rude and arrogant in responding
to a
> legitimate user concern. I have said many times in various places that
> think gnubg is a great program. Nothing has changed my mind.
> I will say this: I did not say that "any deviation... from human
> expectation
> is a bug." If you're going to try to insult me with my own words, at
> use the correct ones. My comments were a bit more complex than your
> restatement of them. I leave it up to the rest of the gnubg community
> decide if they are valid or are off the mark.
> My intent was to offer a useful general criticism by presenting a
> view of software, more specifically an interface issue, not to
> or
> demean the vast and talented effort that has gone into gnubg.
> As for continuing the discussion, no, I don't feel like being part of
> discussion where I am so totally and obviously and demeaningly wrong.
> can
> always get that from Murat over at rgb.
> Ric
> BTW I have Snowie 3 Pro. I didn't spring for Snowie 4 because I
> gnubg an equal if not superior program.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Heled [mailto:address@hidden
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:55 PM
> To: Ric
> Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Resign bug
> I suggest you go and get snowie then. I don't feel like starting a
> discussion where you are wrong. This is open source. If you don't like
> how the program works, change it and start your own branch.
> While you are supposedly using polite words, I take such "user
> responses" as insulting nonsense.
> Many users have useful input and we listen to them all. but "any
> deviation of GNUbg from human expectation is a bug" is crap.
> -Joseph

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