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Re: [Bug-gnubg] Analyse / Rollout - do we need it?

From: Ian Shaw
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Analyse / Rollout - do we need it?
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 16:36:26 +0000

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Petch [mailto:address@hidden 
Sent: 14 October 2011 14:25
To: Ian Shaw
Cc: gnubg-list
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Analyse / Rollout - do we need it?

On 14/10/2011 4:07 AM, Ian Shaw wrote:
> There really is little point to it at the moment. 
> However, I would ask why this rollout can't be saved. It is that it can't be 
> fitted into the sgf structure, which is designed for matches? I was rolling 
> out a few reference positions yesterday, and the only way to do it was to set 
> up a prior position and roll, move to the desired position and roll out the 
> single play. (It was DMP, so there was no place to analyse static position as 
> a cube action - and even this would roll out both double and no double).

Aha, yes obvious that Analyse/Rollout makes sense when you are rolling out a 
reference position! I didn't even consider that, most of the time I'm rolling 
out Cube decisions and actual moves.  With that being said, I'd also go onto 
say that not being able to do "Analyse/Rollout" at DMP is actually a bug.  I 
tried it and I see you get the error about not being able to cube. I tried a 
0.15 release and this was allowed, thus my view its likely a bug. As for why it 
can't be saved or extended, I can't say - I'd have to review how that code was 
handled, but I don't see why it couldn't be represented in SGF. Someone else 
may have an idea.

> A few secondary issues, if you are tweaking the menus:
> 1) Note that there is inconsistent spelling of "analyse/analyse". (The 
> "s" is more prevalent, and I have a slight preference for it.)
Agreed. I am more partial to S over Z myself.
> 2) Why is "Cmark" called "Cmark" and not simply "Mark"?  What information 
> does the "C" convey?
I was curious about this naming convention as well. It has confused some people 
in the past. They thought CMARK was to mark cubes. Simply going with "Mark" 
makes sense to me.

> 3) Analyze/Rollout/Game and ) Analyze/Rollout/Match don't roll out the whole 
> game game or match, they only roll out the Cmarked moves, I believe. Would 
> the menu option be clearer if it read "Rollout Marked"?

Agreed. As it is it adds confusion. You might want to have an option for 
Rollout Marked for the current game and still have Rollout Marked for an entire 
match. But definitely "Marked" should be part of the menu item for clarity.

Ian adds:
Analyze/Rollout/Move also only rolls out Cmarked chequer plays for a single 
move, so putting "Rollout Marked" on the drop-down menu still makes sense. 

I've just tried Analyze/Rollout/Cube on my game with no cube positions in the 
analysis (effective DMP; 2-away 2-away, cube=2) and had an interesting result. 
It reports that I get negative number of trials, and I get a Cube Decision tab 
appearing in the analysis window. Not sure quite what's going on here. The cube 
action wasn't Cmarked, obviously, so the behaviour is inconsistent with the 
other items on the Analyze/Rollout menu. 

-- Ian

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