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Re: [bug #53547] [PATCH] tmac/groff_ms.7.man: Change bold '[' and ']' to

From: Bjarni Ingi Gislason
Subject: Re: [bug #53547] [PATCH] tmac/groff_ms.7.man: Change bold '[' and ']' to roman and other tidying
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:35:17 +0000
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-12-10)

On Mon, Apr 02, 2018 at 07:42:31PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Please stop clobbering the bugtracker with low-quality reports of
> this kind.

  What is this low-quality?  Explain.

  What is "this kind"?

  I am not doing this (clobbering).
Direct your complaint to the right addresses,
namely your fellow maintainers,
who keep and maintain the bug tracker in the same state.

>The "Details:" section of your report is inscrutable
> gibberish, some of the content - as far as it can be guessed what
> it is supposed to mean - is obvious bogus advice, some of it is of
> very little importance (like the Oxford comma), and the patch is
> obviously not fit for committing.

  This only means to me that you do not understand, even that you are
not willing to understand.

  I use a "higher" level language, that you can't comprehend?

  What is this bogus advise?

  Why may, shall, must reports only be about "important" issues?

  What is this "importance"?

  What is not "important" but valid?

  Who and what decides what is what?

  According to what rules?

  Where is all that documented, demanded, explained?

  Why is the patch not "fit" for committing?
  Then you simply do not know how to do (adjust) it.

  Why can't you do anything about it (except complaining without any
clear, concrete information).

  I there anything in the report that is more likely false than true?

  What information is missing in the report?

  What do you think is the purpose of bug reports?

  What is is not?


  The patch is totally OK.  You have not demonstrated that it is not!

> Such reports are not helpful at all.  Triaging them causes more
> work than it is worth, and we simply don't have the time to do such
> triage work.

  The may not help you with a mission.  What is this mission?

  There is no need for any "triaging".  Why is that needed?

  The reasons are all in the report.
Some are not "hand written", but anyone with a common sense can infer
the meaning.
And it is allowed to assume that maintainers have a basic knowledge to
understand the report and be able to find their lacking knowledge on its
own (or ask questions if it is not clear).

>  In fact, the most severe problem the bug tracker
> currently has, limiting its usefulness, is that it is hard to find
> the relevant tickets among lots of noise.

  Your problem is that you do not know what relevant is, and why it
should, must, has to be needed.

  Why do you not find the "relevant" (to whom?) tickets?

  Obviously the needed information is not there, and that is because the
maintainers have not added that information to the bug tracker.

  So this is not my doing, but of your fellow maintainers.

  Why do you not ask them, blame them?

  So your attitude forbids you to commit patches if they do not follow
some demands of your own.


> I feel tempted to close this ticket without even looking at the details.

That simply shows me that you are unfit for the job.

> Please only open a ticket in the future if you:
>  (1) Provide a very concise and clear hand written description.
>  (2) Focus on one problem at a time.
>  (3) The problem is really important.

  These rules are for CODE (except the "hand written" and "important"
part), not necessarily for text!

1) The descriptions are all there, may not be exactly in the form you
(seem to) demand.

  "Hand written" is never a necessity, even if you don't understand
output from a programme.

  File a bug against the programme.  And do not forget to comply to all
your own demands, what a bug report has to, shall, must, contain.

2)  Applies to code, not necessarily to text

  If there is one report for every "problem", then that will "clobber"
the bug tracker.
So fulfilling both of your demands is a CATCH-22.

  I am not aware of any rule, that only allows some kind of reports to
be sent.  Where are those rules?

> Others who are better at reporting may slightly stretch these rules
> and still be helpful, but you have amply demonstrated in the past
> that you *must* follow these rules very strictly, or what you do
> is more of a nuisance than of any help.

  I must not.
That is in your imagination.
You just demonstrate, that you want to be spoon-fed, do not want to
think, do not want to learn, do not want to understand, do not want
"groff" getting improved (by "others").

  Why are valid bug reports a nuisance to you (and other maintainers)?

  What are bug reports supposed to help you (plural) with?

  This simply shows me that you want control, need control over what
others do, are allowed to do.

  Groff is free software, not a slaved one, or you want it to be your
  Groff is part of the GNU operation system, which is a free
software --- that is, it respects users' freedom.

  You (singular) and other maintainers DO ACTIVELY NOT RESPECT THAT.

  You have at least an opportunity to explain your behaviour truly and

  You (plural) show me, that you do not want general help (improving
software), you (plural) show me, that you want to get a feeling of
power and control.

  You (plural) do not show me, that you sincerely want to improve
"groff", or support its improvements unconditionally.

  It is all about power and control.

Explain your (plural) behaviour, at least to yourself!

Dijkstra is so right, just does not mention that too many people are
already mentally damaged (brainwashed, corrupted, locked in a mental
box) when they start learning by rote something called computer
science, but never get to be it (scientist), because of their need for
(a feeling of) power and control.

  You do not think out of the box.

  And you (more than one of you) show lack of wisdom, conscience,
integrity, curiosity, professional attitude, ethical responsibility,
reflection, thinking, and so on.

  "Since breaking out of bad habits, rather than acquiring new
ones, is the toughest part of learning we must expect from that
system permanent mental damage for most students exposed to

  "The problems of the real world are primarily those you are
left with when you refuse to apply their effective solutions."

  Not applying valid patches it one of them.

  Not knowing the difference between better and worse is one of them.

  People are that animal on Earth that causes the most damage.  Thus
they are the most harmful animal, and thus the most dangerous one.


  "For what one has forbidden so far as a matter of principle
has always been --- truth alone.".  These words are valid for
the history of humankind as well as for Nietzsche's family.

Alice Miller "The Untouched key".  Virago Press 1990,
PageĀ 122.

  So what truth appears in my bug reports, that needs to be avoided?


Your complaints do not fulfil your own criteria for rules about
submitting complaints (bug reports).

> Bjarni Ingi Gislason wrote on Mon, Apr 02, 2018 at 12:56:23PM -0400:
> > URL:
> >   <http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?53547>
> > 
> >                  Summary: [PATCH] tmac/groff_ms.7.man: Change bold '[' and 
> > ']'
> > to roman and other tidying
> >                  Project: GNU troff
> >             Submitted by: bjarniig
> >             Submitted on: Mon 02 Apr 2018 04:56:21 PM UTC
> >                 Category: None
> >                 Severity: 3 - Normal
> >               Item Group: Documentation
> >                   Status: None
> >                  Privacy: Public
> >              Assigned to: None
> >              Open/Closed: Open
> >          Discussion Lock: Any
> >          Planned Release: None

Bjarni I. Gislason

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