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Re: [Chicken-users] Rewriting Svnwiki in Java or PHP

From: Brandon J. Van Every
Subject: Re: [Chicken-users] Rewriting Svnwiki in Java or PHP
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 18:41:39 -0700
User-agent: Thunderbird (Windows/20070221)

Zbigniew wrote:

Bigloo has fewer resources going into wikis, extensions, and
cross-platform builds.  That's more resources for your program.

IIUYC, you're saying the fairly small Bigloo community doesn't have much to do, and would be ready and eager to take on a fairly arbitrary project, such as SvnWiki. Whereas the Chicken community is larger, but people all have their own areas of specialty, and are pretty busy with their own concerns. To this I say: I seriously doubt the Bigloo volunteers have time on their hands like you suggest. You'd better go ask 'em before billing them as a readily available labor pool. It is far more likely that they have as much energy per volunteer as any open source community: very little . And we do know that Bigloo's community is smaller, with less effort made towards the infrastructural concerns (wikis, extensions, cross-platform builds) that make systems more widely useful and attract more developers.


Bigloo's build is based on GNU Autoconf, which is much easier to
program with when dealing with a large project such as a web page.

Why is that? I presume you're speaking from experience, programming both GNU Autoconf and CMake "in the large?" Or are you speaking from prejudice, that you know GNU Autoconf, lotsa other people know GNU Autoconf, and you have no idea if CMake offers any advantages or disadvantages, other than it's not GNU Autoconf? FWIW CMake is good enough for KDE, and for them it was better than SCons, so I'm not inclined to believe any a priori assertion that there's a problem with programming CMake in the large. I'd like to hear specific details about what's an enabler or disabler in either build system.

Why is Bigloo or Chicken's build even an issue here? Since when do we build Scheme itself to implement a Scheme application? Or is there something exotic in SvnWiki's principle of operation that I'm not aware of? I wasn't aware that the build system was of any concern to the Scheme programmer at all, other than it builds, it builds on my system, and it builds without me tearing my hair out.

Finally, a major advantage of Bigloo over Chicken Scheme is that
Bigloo does not have Scheme in its name.  This is critical for your

I really doubt that, considering that "Bigloo is a Scheme implementation..." is the 1st statement on its homepage. If marketing is really the dealbreaker, we can canonically refer to "Chicken" when dealing with people who are scared of Scheme. But I think this is silliness. It's not that it's Scheme. It's that it's not a mainstream web language, i.e. Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, or Perl, that lotsa people already know. You simply aren't going to get a lot of people arseing themselves to learn a new, non-mainstream, somewhat weird language. The labor pool is inherently limited.

Brandon Van Every

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