[Cuadrantes-espiral] Re: could we have a chat?

[Quim Gil]

Saul...


I forwarded that message to OpenMute-work mailing list (aka Simon,
Pauline, Tony, Ian and me) because I considered (due to the lack of
communication you mention) that Chinatown was a box that at some point
would join the OpenMute spectrum. In the context of OpenMute we were
talking about "a box with several administrators in which OpenMute
itself wouldn't have any responsibility". 

I forwarded it linked to the question of espiral looking for a new place
because of the bandwith problem and because we (espiral) had already
created a problem and didn't want to create more, but have our own box.

I forwarded also because OpenMute and specially myself are partidaries
of openness of informaton and discussion. That is, because I thought
that problems could be solved sooner and better by doing so. Not because
I wanted to put you in evidence or disappoint you even more.

I didn't answer that email because I'm not technician and I ignore what
really happened, and also because I'm really busy these pre-Xmas days. I
guess Javier is also busy, he use to answer this type of requests quite
soon, I know he has exams these days (he's a young student, cool nerd).
We haven't exanged any emails in the last week ourselves, and we have
some tasks going on between us. Sorry for the silence, it came in a bad
moment.

I also like to meet voices and faces. I'm flying to London on Jan 13th
and I'll be there until the 19th. I feel like owing you (at least!) a
couple of pints in East London.  :)

I feel like thos 100 euros I gave to Simon have been invested in a very
interesting project, so please accept that contribution. Gosh, we love
all your wireless stuff and we are following all the wireless thing from
espiral!!! If you keep trying to give me the money back I may appeal my
Mediterranean background remembering you that having that money in my
pocket again would be an offence and an insult (to me and all my family,
following the ol' tradition).  :))

So, again: please accept our excuses for the mess. It's not a nice
sentence, it's a true feeling.

Quim
(forwarded to the appropriate people, as you requested)

On dv, 2002-12-20 at 21:20, Saul Albert wrote:
> Hi Quim, Javier, Simon.
> 
> Thanks for getting back to me. Firstly, I wanted to apologise if the tone of
> my email caused offence. It was written immediately after recieving emails
> from confused early participants in a project who thought it was their fault
> that the wiki on chinatown didn't work, and then discovering why....
> 
> I wanted to talk to you because the last few interactions we had threw up
> some interesting problems and ideas for me in terms of collaborative /
> shared resource projects, particularly tech-centric ones.
> 
> First, I wanted to explain how I saw the problem and then suggest some
> possible workarounds:
> 
> + Simon's brokering of the arrangement, and the lack of clarity about roles
> / responsibilities meant that I was unsure who to contact and how to respond
> when I discovered that your configuration of the server for lawebespiral
> meant that sites we were hosting were broken.
> 
> + I sent quite a rude email to both of you, which probably pissed you off,
> Javier, because it broadcasted your technical mistake.
> 
> + You forwarded my email to the openmute list without asking or telling me.
> I still don't understand why you did this. I felt awkward about this because
> that email was addressed to the two of you and I imagine that out of
> context, it looked quite bad. Maybe that was the intention.
> 
> + I then found out that you were looking for another server in discussion
> with Simon again without talking to me at all (or responding to my email).
> 
> Having thought it through, I think you didn't contact me because you found
> my tone offensive in that email, and preferred to just move server than to
> deal with my complaint or try to talk to me about it.
> 
> This was humiliating to me because in my view, you were acting as if your
> 100 euros had bought you rights to the resources I was providing*, and that
> they could be badly used, and then discarded because of my complaint, or, as
> it turns out, because they were technically insufficient**.
> 
> Here are some suggestions you might find useful when arranging your next
> server hosting situation:
> 
> - There should be common understanding of aims / use of shared resources,
> based on interpersonal interaction.
> 
> I hardly know you two, or much about what you were doing and why beyond my
> immediate assumptions after reading of some of your writing, and my
> knowledge of your involvement with mute. You didn't know, and didn't bother
> to find out what we were using the server for. That meant that you didn't
> take care not to disrupt our services when you were administering your own,
> and that I got angry rather than being helpful. I think conversation is the
> only way to remedy this, to put faces / voices / aims to email addresses,
> otherwise the technology is a bit de-humanising. Simon brokering this 'deal'
> was problematic because we never had any contact.
> 
> - There should be a clear delineation of expectations / needs and
> responsibilities relating to the shared resource.
> 
> The ad-hoc organisation of the sharing of this resource didn't really work.
> My expectations of your use of the server and your understanding of our use
> of the server came into conflict. A clear statement at the beginning of the
> arrangement could have remedied this.
> 
> - There should also be a common understanding of the etiquette of sharing
> server resources, and email communication.
> 
> The use of ICT not only enables progressive forms of collaboration and
> knowledge sharing, it also gives us a million new ways to insult each other.
> I think a basic shared understanding of email etiquette, and procedures to
> test that one's use of a server is not comprimising anyone else's use of
> that resource are vital if ideas like OpenMute and other shared resource
> communications models are going to function.
> 
> I'd appreciate it if you could forward this email to anyone you forwarded my
> original email to.
> 
> I'll give Simon your 100 euros next time I see him.
> 
> Please rm yourselves on the way out.
> 
> x
> 
> saul.
> 
> * Just to be clear, here is a list of those resources, and what they cost in
> total to maintain. Obviously, your use of these resources is limited to a
> proportion of this, but I think you should know what has been involved in
> getting and keeping chinatown online: 2 routers and 1 server, maintenance,
> electricity, server configuration and installation, BT line rental
> (£30/quarter), Nildram adsl (£25/month), use of town hall (£80/month is my
> personal contribution).
> 
> ** If we had been in communication about this, you would know that I have
> just found a fast computer and am looking for an SDSL provider, which would
> speed up the connection to chinatown x4. We could have found a way to
> collaborate on providing this enhanced resource for both of us, but really I
> think you're better off with a commercial provider.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quim Gil <address@hidden>
> To: Saul Albert <address@hidden>
> Cc: <address@hidden>; <address@hidden>
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:59 AM
> Subject: Re: could we have a chat?
> 
> 
> > Hi Saul,
> >
> > Don't worry. Apart from the misunderstanding we have found a basic
> > reason to find out another server to go, which is called 'speed'.
> > Chinatown is a good server but serves data too slow for a project like
> > lawebespiral.org, which has an average of 4 users interacting with
> > aplications most part of the time, plus anonymous visitors to the
> > website. We are also producing more heavy stuff in terms of images,
> > flash, etc, so the download average is incresing all the time.
> >
> > So, don't worry. It has been a misunderstanding and we apologize for the
> > mistakes we could have done. But without any mistake and without a
> > completely fluent communication we would have made the decision to go
> > anyway.
> >
> > We are currently in the process of buying a machine and hosting it
> > somewhere.
> >
> > And well, we won't call you but not because we don't want to. I'm
> > currently in Barcelona and Javier lives in Sevilla, so it's a bit
> > expensive to maintain a conversation with the UK. :)
> >
> > Hope you understand...
> >
> > Quim
> > PS: Simon is CCed because he's the priest in the marriage.
> >
> >
> > On dv, 2002-12-20 at 06:26, Saul Albert wrote:
> > > Hello Quim, Javier,
> > >
> > > I think there has been some misunderstanding. I'd be very grateful if
> one of
> > > you could call me at some point. I think we can sort this out by
> > > communicating more effectively. I'm at home on 02078378420 tonight and
> > > tomorrow. I use this line as a dialup so if I'm online (and it's
> engaged),
> > > you can use a free web -> sms to tell me you're about to call
> (07941255210),
> > > or just email me and tell me what time you'd like to call and I'll make
> sure
> > > I'm off line.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Saul.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>