Re: [Denemo-devel] Midi-status

[Nils Gey]

Yesterday I solved the complete Issue.

My system had a fallback-chain (by ALSA): 
Jack->alsa->PC-speaker(!!)

So when JACK blocks my ALSA /dev/dsp or /dev/audio it begins to look whats 
possible, and the only free thing was the pcspeaker. So it was not my harddrive 
at all, but this was so close to each other and the audio-noise really sounded 
like a dying harddrive.

In the end its still the topic of having (too) many audio-backends in one 
application while JACK could cover them all alone.

Nils


On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:08:54 -0500
Jeremiah Benham <address@hidden> wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 22:11 +0100, Nils Gey wrote:
> > I think I've got it.
> > 
> > The audio-feedback is connected to it.
> > 
> > Denemo now requires JACK. If jackd is not present Denemo starts it itself 
> > (I recommend to deactivate this and instead give a warning and only leave 
> > non-audio/midi features avaible).
> > 
> > The nature of JACK is that it does not allow any use of the audio-driver 
> > while its running.
> > 
> > But Denemo tries to use /dev/dsp /dev/sequencer which is blocked by JACK. 
> > If that happens my system goes crazy (instead of a crash). 
> 
> I assume regular denemo does not cause this noise? And if you deleted
> the /dev/dsp and /dev/sequencer and turned off immediate playback does
> the noise stop?
> 
> Jeremiah
> 
> 
> > And now I remember: In Debian it crashed at this moment. Now here in Arch 
> > it does not crash but produce these weird sounds.
> > 
> > I don't know how to deactiate this crash. Unchecking the Audio feedback and 
> > deleting the two values /dev/midi and /dev/sequencer is not the solution.
> > 
> > I reommend to get rid of support for people without jack. Not for complete 
> > Denemo, but for the audio-part. Then --enable-jack can be the standard.
> > 
> > It will mean greater compability and better cross-platform-support, too. 
> > And Denemo will loose dependencies like portaudio and can completly rely on 
> > JACK.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Nils
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:32:42 -0500
> > Jeremiah Benham <address@hidden> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 17:28 +0100, Nils Gey wrote:
> > > > I totally forgot:
> > > > 
> > > > Midi-In *is* working, but the strange hardware-noises are still there. 
> > > > So I can put notes in via midi!
> > > > 
> > > > I don't know if I should get an audio-response and what is needed for 
> > > > that. Maybe thats the reason. 
> > > > Can I deactivate the audio-response somehow?
> > > 
> > > Try turning off plyaback entered notes immediately in preferences. See
> > > if that fixes it. 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > And why are there still the two fields in Denemo options with 
> > > > /dev/sequencer and /dev/midi. Isn't this legacy now?
> > > 
> > > Thats for people who don't compile with --enable-jack
> > > 
> > > Jeremiah
> > > 
> > > > Nils
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:10:24 +0100
> > > > Nils Gey <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > First report on midi. I just write what I noticed. I am sure you 
> > > > > probably know most of these already. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I compiled Denemo with --enable-jack. Latest git.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Then I start my jackd, after that Denemo.
> > > > > Denemo shows up as input and output client. The output has voice 1, 
> > > > > which is the first staff.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Creating new staffs, with a custom name "test", shows a new port in 
> > > > > QJackCtls 
> > > > > [+]Denemo
> > > > > 
> > > > > Renaming of the staff has no effect. It stays the the old one for 
> > > > > jack.
> > > > > 
> > > > > With these two staffs, "voice1" and "test", deleting the first one 
> > > > > results in the deletion of the qjackctl port and leaves only "test", 
> > > > > which is fine. Creating a new staff (create new staff above) does not 
> > > > > create a new jack-port.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Creating a new staff with an existing name ("voice1") does create the 
> > > > > staff but not a new jack-port.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I loaded an existing .denemo file with four voices and they show up 
> > > > > correctly as four ports.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Quitting Denemo leaves no traces. Everything is fine.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Now to midi-in:
> > > > > For the midi-in testing I used the software jack-keyboard to avoid 
> > > > > any hardware and/or alsa-bridge related errors. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I remember I got it working once, a few weeks ago, but today there 
> > > > > was no success at all:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Like I said Denemo creates an in-port "denemo" on startup. If you 
> > > > > connect jack-keyboard to it and send notes nothing happens in Denemo. 
> > > > > I know this is an expected behaviour, but in fact this is not the 
> > > > > right behaviour and confusing. If there is already a midi-in port I 
> > > > > (as an uninformed user) don't see why its not possible. See the 
> > > > > suggestions below for that.
> > > > > 
> > > > > So I choose Input->midi input from the menu. The dialog pops up 
> > > > > (which is sooo ugly with my WMII window manager because its stretched 
> > > > > over the whole screen).
> > > > > In QJackCtl I now see a second in-port named denemo-01. I am sure 
> > > > > this is a known bug. 
> > > > > If I connect to the new "denemo-01" it automatically switches to the 
> > > > > first "denemo" port. So connecting to denemo-01 is not possible at 
> > > > > all. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Now comes the freaking part. To avoid confusion: I am some 80% sure 
> > > > > this is related to my system and not to Denemo. I encountered 
> > > > > something like this already with the Video-Lan-Player but I don't 
> > > > > know what it is right now.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Status: Midi-in is now activated, I see two denemo-in ports in jack 
> > > > > and have connected the jack-keyboard to the "denemo" in-port (btw. 
> > > > > same results with my hardware-keyboard via alsa-bridge).
> > > > > 
> > > > > If I send a note now my systems totally freaks out and my hardware(!) 
> > > > > makes constant freaking noises which changes if I send another 
> > > > > midi-note. It sounds a bit like a dial-up modem and it sounds very 
> > > > > very unhealthy.
> > > > > To be clear: I don't mean my audio-hardware! And its not the 
> > > > > pc-speaker. It sounds like scratching or somethings going wild. Maybe 
> > > > > harddrive, maybe some fan... I don't know. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The source of this is Denemo. The sounds are going on until I close 
> > > > > Denemo. Cutting jack-connections, stopping jack or other software has 
> > > > > now effect.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Like I said I believe this is only my system, but there is some error 
> > > > > nontheless. Other software works fine with midi-in/out and routing. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Suggestions:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1) Make --enable-jack default on. Give a warning to the console if 
> > > > > jackd is not started, but let Denemo run. Its a common thing to 
> > > > > restart the client(Denemo) if you want to have jack in the end. I 
> > > > > never saw a "reconnect on the fly" function in any Jack-app that 
> > > > > works flawless (like starting the software anew)
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2) Prevent staffs with the same name at all. Every staff, which means 
> > > > > "jack-port" here, should have a unique name. This should have nothing 
> > > > > todo with lilypond staff names. The printout-names should be allowed 
> > > > > to be different from the internal/jack-name and should be allowed to 
> > > > > be non-unique.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3) The midi-in behaviour is not optimal. I expect sending midi-notes 
> > > > > to Denemo as a standard task. So I suggest to get rid of the midi-in 
> > > > > dialog (enharmonic range etc.) as a popup and leave it as a 
> > > > > preferences tab.
> > > > > In case of enharmonic and key-related behaviour it would be better to 
> > > > > look at the actuall staff-keysigns.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4) Also I suggest to open the Midi-in port right from the start. 
> > > > > Maybe use lash indepently from a lash-project (don't know if thats 
> > > > > possible) to remember the last midi-in connection and try to recreate 
> > > > > it. Of it was the midi-keyboard its likely that its still there. Then 
> > > > > you can do an autoconnect, instructed by Denemo.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 5) This creates a situation where Denemo constantly listens to 
> > > > > midi-in, which is a good solution in my eyes. To prevent accidental 
> > > > > use of the midi-in feature (like putting a dish or some heavy 
> > > > > notation on the keyboard, which is a real live situation) I suggest a 
> > > > > switch in Denemo which reroutes all midi-in signals to /dev/null, but 
> > > > > which does not cut any connections. Its just a bypass.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > So far...
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nils
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > > > address@hidden
> > > > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 


-- 
Nils Gey <address@hidden>