Re: Menu (Was: Re: Unimplemented AppKit classes)

[Stefan Urbanek]

On 2003-01-23 15:32:28 +0100 Nicola Pero <nicola@brainstorm.co.uk> wrote:
> > ... then you tell to the 'graphical editor' what is the relationship between
> >    those objects and how they should change their position and size
> > according to their contents. I do not see the problem of 'specifying
> > that in the file', only that Gorm cannot do that *at this time*. It can
> > be solved by adding some information about object placement and
> > relationships into gorm file and apply it at the time of loading.
> >
> > If this is not yet implemented in Gorm, it does not mean, that the idea of 
> > visual editing is bad.
>
> The idea of visual editing is great, and Renaissance is going to have
> that! :-)
>
> It will have its visual editor.  It is meant to have it.  It's incomplete
> without it.
>
> The visual editor will not use encoding/decoding, but Renaissance to
> read/write.

What about custom objects and custom views refering to those objects?  Or just 
standalone objects.

(snip)

> > Moreover, you have to take care about appearance and usability more than the 
> > contents when you are designing user interface.
> >
> > For the portability see my previous comment about keyed archiving and readable 
> > file.
>
> Keyed archiving will not give you portability.

Why not if we use some readable (or at leas well documented) format suitable 
for object archiving (like XML) ? I mean, the thing we need here is additional 
information about the ui.

Renaissance: Description about position and size relationships between objects.
Gorm: Archived 'real' objects.

I think wee need both. Gorm is lower layer and Renaissance is upper layer. From 
my point of fiew, i would suggest to add some additional information to gorm 
files. That information should be something like it is in .gsmarkup files.
What we need is something in between. What about including .gsmarkup file 
describing relationships between objects into .gorm archove/package? Then after 
unarchiving you do the relayout as you do reconnection of outlets and actions 
now. This is possible after adding Renaissance features into gorm, of course. 
First step should be adding H/VBoxes into the gorm...

Keyed archiving came to my mind, because you can add custom additional 
information about archived objects into the archive without affecting decoding.

> > > What you really want is a graphical editor for Renaissance files which
> > > allows visuallayout, but using the Renaissance objecst to do it. Then
> > > thats the perfect soution I feel for both parties.
> > Or take it from other point of view ... I want a way of describing position and 
> > size relationshps between objects in Gorm :)
>
> You want a modified Gorm which uses Renaissance instead of
> encoding/decoding.

Yes, something like that, but I would not drop encoding/decoding (custom 
objects reason).
Moreover, there should be situations, where you use exact placement of objects 
into the window and do not use auto placement.

> You want it ... and as soon as I can heap up enough time to start this
> job, you'll have it. :-)

That will be great :)

I think, there is a compromise somewhere to satisfy both sides :)

Stefan