Re: GUI without X11 / Artist Help

[jesse]

> On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 00:57:19 -0600, Jesse Ross
>
>> Also, I'd be interested in helping the project out graphically -- I
>> know that Jasper is already working on the icons, but I did a few
>> comps of the required icons to show you the quality and style of my
>> work (Keep in mind, these were done over two days, so the smaller
>> icons aren't fully cleaned up yet).
>> http://www.jesseross.com/clients/icons/
>>
>> Thanks for your help -- please let me know if there is anything I can
>> do to help out in return.
>>
>> Jesse Ross
>
> Hi, I'd like to join my humble criticising. This set of icons is very
> good. It has interesting outline stroke. It is not hard for the rest of
> others who can't hire a graphic artist to play catching up with
> especially at the time we don't have much resource to invest. Some are
> too much
> cartooned and I don't like them. The plugin's dimension looks wrong, the
> nearest pin shouldn't be smaller than others but you probably can fix
> that easily. One idea is using blender or some CAD application to design
> the wire frame and redo them in gimp. The folder is nice
> though it lose some informations when you scaled them down like
> those folders, though the idea is pretty cool. I think it would be nice
> if more than 3-4 artists and UI designer can spend time discussing the
> icon guideline  before we start hiring some people. I didn't pay for the
> money, but my  point is, I think playing catch up with Jasper's quality
> is not easy, not that something I cannot do for myself with enough time
> and mood, but for the rest of people. And it may result in lack of
> inconsistency for the look at the beginning of GNUstep in the market.
> So, I'd like more people to reject (my) following points in
>
> http://www.quentinmathe.com/gnustep/documentation/UI/icons/
> (is this the recent one?)
>
> before support any group to make a default set of icons for GNUstep.
>
> 1) 30 degree isometric icon leaves too much space at the corner
> in my opinion. the icon should utilize the space as much as possible
> while letting it breath. My suggestion was going < 30 degree oblique
> rather isometric.
>
> Take a look at the _Frame icon at
>
> http://maliwan.sourceforge.net/Icons/
>
> It was argue that the space shouldn't be a problem since the hitTest
> should be a square but see 2)
>
> 2) On User interaction chapter of
>
> http://www.quentinmathe.com/gnustep/documentation/UI/icons/c187.html
>
> I argued that quare hitTest is a bad idea since I don't think clicking
> in invisible UI is a good thing. I remember we were discussing this
> in IRC and Quentin said he'll consider about it. I guess I'd like to see
> the spec to make a clear decision on this.
>
> 3) I'd like to see the spec to state it clear about the outline.
>
> Some of my icons as in the link posted above doesn't have outline. Once
> I was too aquaish. Some did, which I prefered them.
> Outline is good. It makes it easier to recognize the icons.
>
> I think it would be nice if Jesse is free enough to become a main artist
> and can do free stuffs for people's applications including default set
> of GNUstep icon. Jesse, I don't know if you have enough time to
> do that. But it would be great if you can offer that kind of help. And
> we can run a competition to elect the icon style manager,
> who can draw the icons her/himself or guide other artists so we can keep
> the way of style in a long run. (I don't think I can do a large number
> of icons, or join the suggested competition if that actually happened,
> at least in the next 2 years since I'll be too busy
> making applications, which is not more important than a default
> set of icons, just nobody will do that for me if I don't do it)
>
> hope there aren't too many points.
>
> /me wonder if he should press the [Send] button.
> ooops

I'd love to be involved as a main artist on the project. I don't have a
completely open schedule, but I'm slowly phasing out freelance work to
make room for stuff that I actually _want_ to be involved in, like
GNUstep.

If there are other artists who are involved in the project, I'd love to
get a hold of them and work on a cohesive set of icons and interface
elements. As important as themeing is for expressing individuality, having
a strong default GUI with a group of accompanying stock icons can only
help the project attract new users and present the image of sophistication
and polish.

Also, apart from icons, is there a direction for the default GUI
interface? I saw some of the theming that will be/is available through
Camaelon -- has there been a clear consensus on keeping certain NEXTSTEP
elements or moving to a more Mac look (ie: horizontal menubar versus
vertical floating bar, scrollbar on left/right)? Any feedback on that
would be helpful for redesiging the default GUI.

J.