Re: Installer UI advices

[Jesse Ross]

> Am I right in thinking that your primary objection to an installer 
> application is user feedback and ability to organise files?
>
> If that's so then I think you're looking in the wrong place for a 
> solution.
>
> Consider:
>
> Flexibility in organising where your applications go is limited by the 
> OS. Additionally, it's actually nice for anyone who needs to work with 
> many different machines if they can find their way around easily. 
> Standardised places help this a lot. It also helps less sophisticated 
> users by helping them with the decision. Users can be free to install 
> the actual app anywhere they want if they tell the installer where to 
> put it.
>
> If you want immediate feedback on where the application has gone I'd 
> have thought the right thing to do is provide that feedback. The 
> desktop/workspace should do something appropriate.
>
> For example; at the end of installation, the icon of the installed 
> application quickly moves from the installer window to a place on the 
> dock.


I'm going to blame all of this on how I was raised. :)

<rant>

I know that this list has it's share of Mac users, but I don't know how 
many of them were Mac users before OS X. If there are any, maybe they 
can tell me if my memory is bad. I grew up on Macintosh. My first 
computer was an Apple Centris 650 and I've used "classic" Macintosh OSs 
(7,8,9) more years than I've used OS X. In that system, there was a 
System folder, which you only touched when you needed to modify the 
system. Everything else was up for grabs. You could organize it however 
you saw fit. Of course it was a bitch for standardization, but it was 
more about freedom of organizing _your_ space, _your_ computer. Once I 
started using OS X and Linux, I was abhorred by all these folders that 
meant nothing to me, and were taking up _my_ mindshare and field of 
vision when I went looking for my files. Why should I have to see any 
of this crap? Does it have any bearing on just getting my work done? 
Why can't I throw them away? Why, when I try to put things in them, 
does it tell me I'm not authorized? It's _my_ computer... shouldn't I 
be able to put things where I want and move what I want where I want?

This is mindset of the typical user. Put the power in their hands to do 
what they want with their computer, and don't make the computer invade 
into their lives and space.

This invasion of the computer's world into the user's world is not 
exclusive to *nix. Windows is the same way, so countless people get 
used to having to see their workspace littered with things they 
shouldn't have to deal with. I don't think that's right. They should be 
able to manage their computer as they see fit, not how the computer 
sees fit. The computer should be invisible.

This is my biggest qualm with package managers and installers and 
software you have to use first to get the software you really want 
(Frederico, I'm not trying to down your work -- you're doing a good job 
and don't stop because I get into a rant about usability and 
user-empowerment). I don't know how many times I've done apt-get 
install somesoftware, and then I can't figure out where my software 
went to. Maybe it's in /usr/bin, maybe it's in my home folder, maybe 
it's in the start menu. I have no idea, it doesn't make sense to me. 
Maybe that's because I grew up on a Mac, and so I see where it was at 
its best (drag and drop and done) and want to use that everywhere. It's 
ridiculous how much _work_ I have to do just to set up a Linux machine, 
and how much hunting around the system I have to do. I've learned a lot 
about how it all works, but the point is, I shouldn't have had to, and 
your average, web-surfing end user isn't interested enough and won't 
take the time to. They will say "this is too hard" and give up.

There are ways to make this stuff easier on the end user. It can be 
done. If it means more programming, or more effort up front for the 
developers, but it means an easier life for end users, then it's worth 
it. We tend to do this for ourselves, but if we want to make something 
that changes how everyday people work and communicate and live and 
interact, then we need to think of them.

No, better than that. We need to think _like_ them.

They HATE computers. They just want to get some work done. They don't 
want to think "I'm using a computer" -- they want to think about the 
paper they're writing, or the photos they're organizing, or the web 
site they're looking at. They don't want to think about compiling 
software so that it works for their machine, or hunting down 
dependencies, or adding repositories to a sources list, or finding out 
where that installer put their app. They want to be able to download an 
app, drop it on their machine, and use it and have it work.


These are big problems to try and solve. I'm not saying I have all or 
any of the answers. I just think that there is a way to make all of 
this easier, more invisible. Wouldn't making an open source system that 
is easier to use than a Mac be an amazing and worthy feat? I want to 
make something I could give my mom, and have her understand. She's 
frightened of computers, and I want to make something she can manage 
and not be afraid of. If I didn't think GNUstep was a great base for 
that "something", I wouldn't be here.

</rant>



J.