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Re: Cocotron

From: Helge Hess
Subject: Re: Cocotron
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:01:37 +0100

On Dec 24, 2006, at 10:49, Matt Rice wrote:
just figured i would post a link to the thread i
believe you are referring to here
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnustep/2004-03/ msg00008.html

Yes, I guess so. I think it turned into a big flamewar which we don't want to repeat ;-)
But after all its quite a good demonstration on why we have duplicates.

Eg why would Cocotron adopt gnustep-gui if they already have a version which works much better *for them*. I wonder whether it would be a good approach to let them be the Cocoa for Windows if thats their focus and concentrate on Linux. Maybe try to make them use gnustep-base.

but a large problem was the copyright assignment issue

Thats right, copyright assignment is a huge blocker. It almost forgot about this one, but it was mentioned several times now.
(BTW: in fact I have done the copyright assignment for GNUstep)

Hm, yes. Thats probably a huge issue for people coming from Cocoa. They already have a problem with just the license, and _then_ they are also supposed to assign copyright. You really need to provide a very good value in return to make that worthwhile.

i'm not sure what is hindering you from replacing
SOPE-imap with GNUMail/Pantomime, and i'm not actually
sure if GNUMail is even copyright assigned to the FSF
it doesn't say Copyright (c) ... Free Software
Foundation anywhere...

What hinders me is that this means a lot of work :-)

Obviously the copyright-assignment is only an issue for GNUstep (can't work with developers who do not want to assign it to the FSF), not the other way around.

so i'm wondering if project cohesion is reducing
collaboration in this case, because GSWeb and
SOPE-appserver cannot get along is that hindering
progress replacing libFoundation with gnustep-base,

Its not hindering the gnustep-base port at all.

or alternately if GSWeb and GNUstep core were
you might have issues with the GSWeb and still be able
to maintain a 'healthy relationship' with core.

I think I do have a healthy relationship with core :-) The current issue is that work needs to be done and nobody can force anyone in doing that work.

My current opinion wrt GNUstep is that I would like to use gnustep- make / gnustep-base and just don't care about / "blend out" the remaining stuff. Everything else in GNUstep is useless _for me_ and I don't see that this will change.
If GNUstep would be just the parts I need, it would be perfect :-)

i should point out i'm not pointing any fingers at
GSWeb specifically it seems to be an instance of a
larger problem, similar issues come up with those
wanting it to be a desktop and those wanting a set of
core libraries

Probably you are on the right track here. GNUstep is a LOT of stuff, it acts like some kind of wrapper project for everything people come up with. Which obviously leads to duplicates with other projects working with other Foundations (mostly Cocoa of course).

now i'm not sure if/how much any of this cohesion is
caused by project accessibility, is GSWeb and core
under the GNUstep project umbrella because we as the
umbrella haven't done a good enough job making outside
projects using GNUstep core easily accessible?

so if we could make the GNUstep umbrella a separate
project entirely, which could have some specific
objectives a few come to mind like

help secure permanent hosting if needed for free
software projects using the GNUstep core
make easily accessible projects which fall under the
GNUstep umbrella
maintain a neutral stance regarding competing software
projects though promoting collaboration

so with something like this in place, maybe we could
collaborate more, by being able to keep disagreements
and religious issues isolated to their respective
projects, and prevent them reflecting upon GNUstep as
a whole and hindering potential for further

All that sounds quite reasonable and to the point to me.


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