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Re: Cocotron used for a real-world app


From: Gregory John Casamento
Subject: Re: Cocotron used for a real-world app
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:03:05 -0700 (PDT)

TMC,

One more thing...  It says that they spent two months adding:

• Added unicode path support to the NSFileManager class.
• Added support for displaying truncated strings.
• Added support for drawing unicode strings. (Not very pretty support.)
• Fixed some issues with the NSSocket implementation.
• Worked around or fixed a number of UI bugs. (It was similar to trying to get a Cocoa UI to look right in both OS X 10.4 and 10.5.)
• Since Cocotron is not a complete implementation, we had to implement some methods ourselves, filling in the Windows implementation of the required Cocoa routines. A few examples:
- [NSPropertyList dataFromPropertyList:] (for binary property lists)
- [NSImage TIFFRepresentation]
- [NSFileManager subpathsAtPath:]
- [NSWorkspace iconForFile:]
- [NSMutableString replaceOccurrencesOfString:withString:option:]
• Additionally, Ken posted a few issues/requests to the Cocotron Google Group, and the team responded amazingly fast; they even implemented some functionality that we needed.

GNUstep already has all of the above mentioned methods.  I'll mentioned this on the blog-page you gave.

Thanks, GC
Gregory Casamento -- Principal Consultant - OLC, Inc
# GNUstep Chief Maintainer



From: Gregory John Casamento <address@hidden>
To: TMC <address@hidden>; address@hidden
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Cocotron used for a real-world app

TMC,

> I thought GNUstep folks would like to know that [Cocotron][2], another Cocoa
> / *step implementation, has been used by a Mac software company to [port an
> app to Windows][1].

Thank you for this information.   See GNUstep's "success stories" page for examples of real world apps GNUstep has been used for:

http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Success_Stories

That list is not complete and there are a few more on the way. :)

> File Magnet Uploader is an application that transfers files between a Mac or
> Windows computer and the iPhone (or iPod Touch). It uses a GUI window to
> manage transfers, drag-and-drop file transferring, progress bars, and many
> other AppKit classes.

It seems like a fairly modest application.

> [Cocotron has been discussed before][4]. Its authors do not like GNUstep's
> license nor GNUstep's approach to installation.

Given that the LGPL and the GPL are used by roughly 80% of all open source projects, I'm not sure what the objection to it was.   The LGPL allows commercial use of the libraries without the necessity to release the code.  So far, the only people I've ever heard complain about the license is the Cocotron project. :)

I'm not certain why our "approach to installation" is a problem.  Could you elaborate on this a little?  We have, and have had for some time, script which will allow you to build GNUstep with one command.   We have gone to great lengths to simplify installation. GNUstep can also be installed so that it is conformant with the FHS for people who insist on it.  So, any feedback you might be able to give would be very much appreciated.

> Its license is MIT and workswith Xcode to re-target a Cocoa app to Windows (and eventually Linux).

Our aim is to be a completely independent development environment on top of as many operating systems as possible.  Currently GNUstep is allows you to compile applications written for Cocoa on Windows, Linux, *BSD, Solaris, IRIX, etc.   I don't see that kind of portability with Cocotron.  :)

The projects are different on a fundamental level.  Whereas Cocotron simply wants to be a means by which people port from Mac OS X to other platforms, GNUstep seeks to be an API, a Development environment, a basis for a Linux desktop, and a means by which people can port their Cocoa based applications.  The fact of the matter is that GNUstep's goals are much broader than Cocotron's goals are.

> Its MIT license means that GNUstep is legally free to incorporate code from
> Cocotron, but Cocotron is not allowed to use GNUstep code. Nevertheless
> [using Cocotron code is not feasible][5]:  it would break GNUstep's
> convention of copyright assignment, and would mean integrating code that may
> rely on Cocotron's specific implementation.

Yes, that's true.  Copyright assignment is currently required because the copyright of GNUstep is held by the FSF.

> Personally I am glad that Cocotron is open source, and believe that a
> friendly rivalry will spur both Cocotron and GNUstep to improve themselves.

I agree. :D   Thank you for your thoughts.

Later, GC
Gregory Casamento -- Principal Consultant - OLC, Inc
# GNUstep Chief Maintainer



From: TMC <address@hidden>
To: address@hidden
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:50:26 PM
Subject: Cocotron used for a real-world app


I thought GNUstep folks would like to know that [Cocotron][2], another Cocoa
/ *step implementation, has been used by a Mac software company to [port an
app to Windows][1].

Glen Aspeslagh, one of the authors of the [File Magnet application][3],
posted an overview of the porting process. He contributed code to the
Cocotron project, as he states below:

* Added Unicode path support to the NSFileManager class.
* Added support for displaying truncated strings.
* Added support for drawing Unicode strings. (Not very pretty support.)
* Fixed some issues with the NSSocket implementation.
* Worked around or fixed a number of UI bugs. (It was similar to trying to
get a Cocoa UI to look right in both OS X 10.4 and 10.5.)
* Since Cocotron is not a complete implementation, we had to implement some
methods ourselves, filling in the Windows implementation of the required
Cocoa routines. A few examples:
  - [NSPropertyList dataFromPropertyList:] // (for binary property lists)
  - [NSImage TIFFRepresentation]
  - [NSFileManager subpathsAtPath:]
  - [NSWorkspace iconForFile:]
  - [NSMutableString replaceOccurrencesOfString:withString:option:]

File Magnet Uploader is an application that transfers files between a Mac or
Windows computer and the iPhone (or iPod Touch). It uses a GUI window to
manage transfers, drag-and-drop file transferring, progress bars, and many
other AppKit classes.

[Cocotron has been discussed before][4]. Its authors do not like GNUstep's
license nor GNUstep's approach to installation. Its license is MIT and works
with Xcode to re-target a Cocoa app to Windows (and eventually Linux). Its
MIT license means that GNUstep is legally free to incorporate code from
Cocotron, but Cocotron is not allowed to use GNUstep code. Nevertheless
[using Cocotron code is not feasible][5]:  it would break GNUstep's
convention of copyright assignment, and would mean integrating code that may
rely on Cocotron's specific implementation.

Personally I am glad that Cocotron is open source, and believe that a
friendly rivalry will spur both Cocotron and GNUstep to improve themselves.

[1]: http://macdaddyworld.com/2008/10/27/adventures-in-cocotron/
[2]: http://www.cocotron.org/Info
[3]: http://www.magnetismstudios.com/filemagnet/
[4]: http://www.nabble.com/Cocotron-to8033632.html
[5]: http://www.nabble.com/Using-code-from-Cocotron-to10426241.html

--Tycho Martin Clendenny
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Cocotron-used-for-a-real-world-app-tp20216767p20216767.html
Sent from the GNUstep - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



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