[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows
From: |
Riccardo Mottola |
Subject: |
Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows |
Date: |
Fri, 19 Feb 2016 12:38:42 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:42.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/42.0 SeaMonkey/2.39 |
Hi,
Gregory Casamento wrote:
Riccardo,
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016, Riccardo Mottola
<riccardo.mottola@libero.it <mailto:riccardo.mottola@libero.it>> wrote:
Hi,
Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
It would be nice to target the Rasbpberry Pi using Wayland
me too. except for Wayland. I want to have run on raspbian
smoothly instead of the provided WM they have.
Why not wayland? Network transparency is not something which is super
important these days even on the rpi. Wayland brings us a number of
advantages:
Right for such a small box network transparency is a good thing.
Some people may want to use a "mini computer" like the piOS guys with
the mini NeXT CUBE, but others may want to deploy it headless.
Also, currently X11 works fine on the Pi and the raspbian is , thus my
statement was intented for the short-term future.
I think we can support wayland along X!!? actually we absolutely should.
If Wayland becomes interesting on the PI we can just the other backend.
What's the best way to be interesting on the PI and similar project?
exploit their current stuff and make the best experience right now and
gradually improve it? Or imagine a disrupitve change.. and be ready in a
year with a new backend (which means we will fix and improve other
things less)?
* native compositing
* it expects frameworks to draw their own Windows something we do
extremely well.
* it supports true window transparency
* it allows animations and such to be done much more l easily if and
when needed
* etc
I think we really need to question whether X truly serves our needs.
No one is saying leave it behind. What we are saying is to take
advantage of the things wayland does for us.
Sure.. but is Wayland to help us on these small devices, to be more
appealing there? Taking in consideration that the GPU and FPU of these
machines aren't that fast, so effects and other gizmo need to be used
sparingly.
My thought was not general, not on a super-workstation with 8 cores and
twin GPUs and more videoram than the PI itself has.
These need to be looked at. Slowness has been a problem. I can
remember using GNUstep on a 128mb Linux machine 10-12 years ago. I
would like to get some benchmarks which are unbiased about our
performance rather than hearsay and conjecture. I would also like us
to focus on hardware on which GNUstep will be realistically deployed
rather than taking the netbsd approach and worrying about making it
work everywhere.
I think if would be interesting to have some sort of "gradual
degradation" of features vs. speed. A bit like WIndows does with Aero
depending on your hardware, but not applied only to graphics.
Of course, general optimiazions benefit everybody, no doubt.
I suppose though that people wanting to use GNUstep on their workstation
or laptop to develop natively, would like all the features.
While the Raspberry has a decent CPU, its FPU and GPU are slow compared
to it as sperhaps are other component. That is, if I take an older
computer with x86 or ppc with comparable cpu, I see that it feels a lot
snappier.
Cairo, for example, is heavy on the FPU and generally, GNUstep is quite
heavy on it. That's the reason why the letux400 with a 360Mhz effective
clockspeed, but no FPU is very very slow with GNUstep, slower than a
100Mhz SPARC cpu! Other applications, which do not use cairo/art/gtk...
can be reasonably fast.
In Dublin with Richard we found that memory usage is quite high, but
found no obvious reason for it, not a particular dependency to disable.
Riccardo
- Re: Questions (was: Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows), (continued)
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Gregory Casamento, 2016/02/26
- Message not available
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Doc O'Leary, 2016/02/27
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Richard Frith-Macdonald, 2016/02/17
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Gregory Casamento, 2016/02/17
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Riccardo Mottola, 2016/02/17
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Gregory Casamento, 2016/02/17
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, David Chisnall, 2016/02/18
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Sergio L. Pascual, 2016/02/19
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows,
Riccardo Mottola <=
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Ivan Vučica, 2016/02/19
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Thom Cherryhomes, 2016/02/19
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Austin Clow, 2016/02/19
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Ivan Vučica, 2016/02/19
- a complete OS distro (was: Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows), Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf, 2016/02/17
- Message not available
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Doc O'Leary, 2016/02/17
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, David Chisnall, 2016/02/18
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Doug Simons, 2016/02/18
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Riccardo Mottola, 2016/02/19
- Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows, Riccardo Mottola, 2016/02/19