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[emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support
From: |
Gregg Reynolds |
Subject: |
[emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support |
Date: |
Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:21:12 -0600 |
User-agent: |
Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) |
Benjamin Riefenstahl wrote:
Hi Gregg,
Howdy Benny,
Thanks much for taking the time for a thoughtful reply. Since this is,
after all, the emacs-bidi developer list, I'll make a couple of short
remarks and respond off list.
First is that I really should be talking about "orientation
independence" and not just LTR/RTL. We also need top-to-bottom RTL
(CJK) and top-to-bottom LTR (Mongolian). Ideally application code for
drawing would be the same for each.
...
Hm. In your opinion, native Arab speakers who only work in their own
language are how much of the whole user base for Arabic? 50%? 70%?
90%?
No idea. Well, let's face it, emacs is a programming tool first and
foremost, and it would be pretty hard to program without knowing a bit
of English. ;) But in general, I suspect strongly that technical
people routinely overestimate the *need* (not the desire) of non-LTR
people to use Western languages in their texts. Google around a bit for
Arabic-language online newspapers - I almost never see anything but
Arabic script in the texts. English/French tends to show up in only two
places: where the SW vendor puts it at the bottom of the page, or in
advertising images. (Or course there are exceptions.)
As far as I have seen (and you have probably more experience),
newspapers and magazines sometimes do and sometimes don't.
T'is true. But the point is they can still publish without it.
advertisements seem to be more likely to use at least their brand
names in Latin script. And those advertisements targeting the wealthy
probably use English marketing phrases, as they do over here in
Germany, right?
Mmm, not usually marketing phrases, I think, mostly company and product
names, usually. I think English is far more widely used in Germany and
Europe generally than in the Arab world.
than with others, as this example shows. And even here we actually
have emacs-bidi now.
Well ok then! Practical stuff! (Oh, yeah, point 3: advocating
mono-directional RTL support != anti-bidi.) How do we get it into the
main branch? Is it simply a matter of thorough testing? Do we need
some kind of test harness, lots of test cases? I would be more than
happy to contribute in any way needed.
Will the bidi branch work on MSWindows? I'm afraid the vast majority of
RTL people (at least in the Arab world) use Windows, so we would
probably need Windows binaries to recruit testers. For the *nixy stuff,
I think we could twist some arms at arabeyes.org to do testing stuff.
What about code review? Do you need Arabic speakers to take look? Add
unit tests, etc.?
-gregg
- [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support, (continued)
- [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support, Benjamin Riefenstahl, 2005/11/25
- [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support, Gregg Reynolds, 2005/11/25
- [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support, Eli Zaretskii, 2005/11/25
- Re: [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support, Omer Zak, 2005/11/25
- Re: [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support, Gregg Reynolds, 2005/11/26
- [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support, Benjamin Riefenstahl, 2005/11/28
- [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support,
Gregg Reynolds <=
- Re: [emacs-bidi] Re: RTL support, Eli Zaretskii, 2005/11/28
- Re: [emacs-bidi] RTL support, Martin Duerst, 2005/11/23
- Re: [emacs-bidi] RTL support, Gregg Reynolds, 2005/11/24
- Re: [emacs-bidi] RTL support, Eli Zaretskii, 2005/11/24
Re: [emacs-bidi] RTL support, Ehud Karni, 2005/11/23