Re: Changing the no-toolkit scrollbar thumb color. (minor issue)

[Jan D.]

> > One of the reasons to have GTK in the first place is to get a 
> > consistent
> > look-and-feel with other GTK/Gnome applications (granted Emacs uses
> > different icons).  If customizations are needed, we can recommend 
> > another
> > toolkit.
>
> That's completely absurd.
>
> Perhaps the main goal of adding GTK support for you was `consistency,' 
> which
> is admirable, but please don't repeat the mistakes of the Gnome 
> project by
> deciding that `consistency' is so overarching a goal that it ought to 
> trump
> all others.

No, not the main goal, but one goal.  I like customizations, I think
Xt got that part right with X resources.  In an ideal world, I would
have liked GTK to have something similar.  But I see where Gnome/GTK
is headed, Gnome 1.4 is more customizable than 2.4.  Sawfish (the
default WM in 1.4) is more customizable than Metacity (default WM in
2.4).  Gnome is relying more and more on Gconf, the file based
customizations may be removed.  It has been stated that the first
priority for GTK is to make Gnome work.  It may also come to a point
where Gnome is needed for GTK apps.  Already bug reports on GTK
has been answered with "use this and that feature in Gnome".

I don't run Gnome, so I use the current customizations for GTK Emacs.
But shall we go against the direction GTK/Gnome is headed for?  Or just
accept the fact that GTK/Gnome has a different agenda an adopt to it?

> Anyway, my main point is: document, don't enforce.

This is a good advice, but I don't like things that sometimes
works and sometimes don't based on different surroundings (i.e. themes).

> I apologize if any of the above seems obnoxious; I'm very grateful for 
> the
> work you've done in adding GTK support to emacs.

Actually, I think we agree on what kind of customization we want.  The
question is, can we get it?

        Jan D.