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Re: Scrollbar bug on OS X

From: David Reitter
Subject: Re: Scrollbar bug on OS X
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 20:59:23 +0100

On 7 Apr 2005, at 20:30, David Kastrup wrote:

Stefan Monnier <address@hidden> writes:

    PS: The only problem is that those toolkits have the idiotic
    idea to enforce that the bottom of the thumb cannot go further
    than the bottom.  And they enforce it by hiding the events
    corresponding to "user moves the mouse yet-further-down".

I can talk with the GTK developers about this.  And also with the
LessTif developers.  Should I do that?

Feel free to try, but I don't have much hope:
- The LessTif people are probably bound by compatibility.
- The Gtk people are usually bound by dogmatism.

Didn't Miles in the context of "David would welcome Athena semantics
even with fancy-looking scrollbars" mention that it would be possible
to process the scrollbar events without even passing them into the
scrollbar widgets in the first place?

I understand something like that is happening in the mac port, which makes it very hard to get decent behavior in the first place.

Users exert their freedom to chose a particular UI environment. GTK can be seen as part of an environment, as it creates compatible behavior across applications. As mentioned earlier in this thread, UI is more than the pretty visual image of a widget - it's the behavior that counts.

Consistency is extremely important. While I respectfully disagree with Stefan's view that it is an "idiotic idea" to not let the 'thumb' extend beyond the bottom of the scrollbar, and while I think that this commonly used scrollbar behavior is actually consistent with the document/window metaphor put forward in most modern windowing environments since the mid-80's (which implies no over-scrolling), I think that a discussion about what the right behavior is is not necessary at all. Instead, suffice it to say that it should be up to the UI layer to implement the exact behavior.

That would respect the user's choice of environment (provided GTK implements things correctly.)

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