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Re: smtp crap

From: Tim Cross
Subject: Re: smtp crap
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 10:11:45 +1100

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden> wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 08:21:41 +1100
>> From: Tim Cross <address@hidden>
>> Cc: address@hidden, address@hidden, address@hidden,
>>       Stefan Monnier <address@hidden>,
>>       PJ Weisberg <address@hidden>, address@hidden,
>>       Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden>, address@hidden
>> and please, DO NOT jump through all sorts of hoops with -Q to enable
>> 'special' configuration settings to exist - the whole idea of -Q is
>> that it is a base, well known and repeatable configuration. Once you
>> start making exceptions that whole premise is lost. Using -Q should
>> allow me to have exactly the same configuration as someone else who
>> also runs -Q - it should not be 'the same configuration except for
>> ....' If this means that users cannot submit bugs using emacs as their
>> MUA when running -Q it does not mean we need to hack at custom or make
>> exceptions - it means that email is not the right solution for
>> submitting bug messages when running under -Q.
> Sorry, no.  That's unacceptable.  It was discussed long ago and
> decided that the bug tracker will accept bug reports through email.
> Trying to revert that, and during pretest at that, is a no-starter.

There is a BIG difference between what the bug tracker accepts/does
and how reports are entered into the system. There is also much that
is inconsistent in these arguments.

Preventing emacs from submitting bugs via email when running under -Q
does not prevent the user form submitting the bug report using another
email client.

There should be NO exceptions to -Q - it should represent an emacs
environment where ALL user configuration values are at their default
settings. Making special exceptions just to allow the submission of
bug reports via email is misguided and the thin edge of the wedge.
Keep it clean and keep it simple. The -Q switch should be consistent
and with no exceptions.

There is no technical reason we could not have an http (or whatever
protocol you prefer) to mail gateway that would allow the bugs to
still be submitted to the bug tracker via email.

If the big blocker to getting this right is that we are in pretest and
therefore cannot make significant change, then surely, given that the
current proposed solutions are less than adequate, the sensible
solution is to delay making ANY change to default behaviour until we
have a good solution. It makes no sense to push forward with something
that obviously has significant usability issues because of some
arbitrary pretest condition. If the arguments for changing the default
are valid and the majority of emacs users have to use smtpmail rather
than local MTAs or don't configure emacs as a MUA and the default MUA
settings are most often broken due to misconfigured local MTAs, then
email submission under -Q is already broken for a majority of users
and has been for some time. Therefore, leaving things as they are
until the post-24 release is not going to make matters worse.


Tim Cross

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