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Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info mus
From: |
David Kastrup |
Subject: |
Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die |
Date: |
Sat, 20 Dec 2014 12:35:31 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) |
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <address@hidden> writes:
> David Kastrup writes:
>
> > There is actually another hidden hurdle that has not been
> > mentioned: the target format "Info" is not independent from the
> > manual's organization of content: content is organized into
> > node-sized chunks, with a somewhat hierarchical organization
> > intended to make all non-bottom nodes fit on a screen if feasible
> > in order to make navigation fast.
>
> I don't think this is a big problem, though. I don't see any reason
> why the organization into "nodes" or "pages" (as in the original
> intent of *nix "man page") would change. It's the obvious way (at
> least to me) to provide modularity in documentation to correspond to
> the modularity of the program.
Well, a lot of the complaints of people preferring man pages over info
pages significantly concern the organization of the _content_ rather
than a problem with the format.
The whole Git documentation is still available as Info manuals (thanks
to some Makefile targets and Docbook2x), but it is not really
_structurally_ Info-like material.
Perl documentation is structured into man pages, and this really strains
the concept, basically plastering chapters of a single manual across
separate man pages.
> > However, this kind of "fast" implies that not every following of a
> > link requires substantial time fetching and rerendering pages.
> > HTML (let alone http and the Internet) is not intended for fast
> > flipping back and forth between independent pages, and the HTML
> > browsers are not supposed to deal with humongous pages comprising a
> > whole manual either.
>
> Sorry, David, but this is a *plus*, not a *minus*. The Emacs manuals
> will continue to be distributed with Emacs. Users with a full Emacs
> installed (OK, Debian users won't get them in the default "free"
> distribution) will have local access to the manuals. Local access is
> plenty fast whether broken up into multiple files or as a single large
> file, as applications like S5 prove.
For mostly text-centric stuff, maybe. But that's what the HTML fans
loudly claim to be uncool.
Stuff like
<URL:http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/input/regression/collated-files.html>
is painful to scroll around even locally loaded.
> I can't testify to "humongous" files (eg, the Emacs Lisp manual), but
> historically those have been divided for Info presentation, too.
Once you work on the divided HTML form, finding stuff via plain text
search and/or index gets really painful. And jumping around several
files refetches and rerenders them all the time.
--
David Kastrup
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, (continued)
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2014/12/20
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Lennart Borgman, 2014/12/20
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, David Kastrup, 2014/12/20
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2014/12/20
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Lennart Borgman, 2014/12/20
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2014/12/20
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Lennart Borgman, 2014/12/20
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Richard Stallman, 2014/12/21
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die,
David Kastrup <=
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2014/12/20
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Richard Stallman, 2014/12/21
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, David Kastrup, 2014/12/21
- RE: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Drew Adams, 2014/12/21
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, David Kastrup, 2014/12/21
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Sven Axelsson, 2014/12/21
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Lennart Borgman, 2014/12/21
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, David Kastrup, 2014/12/21
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Lennart Borgman, 2014/12/21
- Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die, Lennart Borgman, 2014/12/21