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Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security
From: |
Eli Zaretskii |
Subject: |
Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security |
Date: |
Sat, 07 Jul 2018 19:08:04 +0300 |
> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2018 11:25:44 -0400
> From: "Perry E. Metzger" <address@hidden>
> Cc: address@hidden, address@hidden, address@hidden, address@hidden,
> address@hidden
>
> > I don't know where you took that number.
>
> Maybe you should learn about the topics you have such strong opinions
> on before expressing the strong opinions. If you were actually in the
> field or even reading the literature, you wouldn't need to ask such
> things.
Maybe you should learn to talk with people who are not specialists,
and maybe you should learn to recognize "strong opinions" when you see
one.
> > > As for your own configuration, you're free to change the defaults
> > > any way you like, so why are you arguing anyway?
> >
> > Because I think there are many others like me.
>
> So the others like you can change the defaults any way you like. WHAT
> IS THE PROBLEM.
Irrelevant. We are talking about the defaults.
> > I meant your opinions about how Emacs should design its
> > security-related UI and treat its users. They are definitely not
> > facts,
>
> So far, I hear a number of people saying "the reasonable thing is to
> use the same default behavior that pretty much everything else uses",
> and I hear Eli saying "no, no, I want to make things more complicated
> because I claim that somehow there will be great inconvenience if
> the software rejects obviously forged certificates or obviously
> insecure cipher suites by default".
So maybe you should learn to listen more carefully. And read, for
that matter.
> What exactly is the inconvenience you anticipate if an Emacs IMAP
> user connecting to google rejects a certificate that isn't vouched
> for by the CT mechanism? Can you explain _precisely_ why you insist
> that it is necessary to have different defaults than everyone else
> uses?
I already did. PLEASE RE-READ WHAT I WROTE, and not necessarily to
in response to your posts.
> > > And this sets you apart from people who have worked in the field
> > > for decades, and from people who have done objective studies in
> > > the field.
> >
> > Studies on Emacs users?
>
> Emacs users are for the most part human beings, yes.
They are not a representative sample of computer users, however. So
what by and large is correct for the bulk of the users is not
necessarily correct for Emacs users.
> > You are completely missing the point. No one claimed we should
> > expect users to judge certificates.
>
> Then what the hell are you arguing for?
READ MY MESSAGES!!
> > I see these issues every day, using mostly
> > Firefox and IE.
>
> Why are you using IE?
Because I sometimes have to. And there's nothing special about it, it
actually sometimes works better than Firefox.
> > Please read Jimmy's comments on this, and respond to them if you
> > want.
>
> Jimmy is entirely reasonable here. I'm not arguing with him because
> he's not saying anything terribly wrong.
Then you don't have any argument with me, either, because I don't have
any argument with Jimmy.
(And please leave out ad-hominem, your unconcealed disdain makes this
a very unpleasant discussion.)
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, (continued)
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Eli Zaretskii, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Perry E. Metzger, 2018/07/05
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Perry E. Metzger, 2018/07/05
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Eli Zaretskii, 2018/07/06
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Richard Stallman, 2018/07/06
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Perry E. Metzger, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Eli Zaretskii, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Perry E. Metzger, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Eli Zaretskii, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Perry E. Metzger, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security,
Eli Zaretskii <=
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Richard Stallman, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Perry E. Metzger, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Eli Zaretskii, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Richard Stallman, 2018/07/08
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Perry E. Metzger, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Paul Eggert, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong, 2018/07/07
- Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security, Eli Zaretskii, 2018/07/07