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Re: [Orgmode] Beamer support in Org-mode


From: Carsten Dominik
Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Beamer support in Org-mode
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:30:47 +0100


On Jan 4, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:


If a B_note tag is used in a headline for notes, it has the advantage that it will be easier to see all the notes in the document (slides with notes). Also, it would be easier to customize if the notes should be exported for other formats other then beamer (since the user could simple exclude the B_note tag).

Regarding the headline itself, I think it would be better to ignore it. AFAIK it is not possible to set a title for a note slide and using the headline as the
first note would limit what could be put in the first note.


What I meant as an alternative would be to treat the headline as if it would be part of the normal text - which would make it easier to make simple, single-line notes.

So

   *** this is a note  :B_note:
        with more text


would actually translate to

 \note{This is a note
  with more text}


On the other hand, if #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE ... #+END_BEAMER_NOTE is used instead
of a headline then org could advertise the use of yasnippets in the
documentation and maybe also provide a snippet for this. Therefore, writing the notes environment wouldn't be much of a problem, but a way of avoiding exporting
beamer notes to other formats would have to be implemented.


That would be simple. Beamer support hooks into ORg in many places, and we could simple use one of those hooks to remove these for everything that is not bermer export.

But what would be the advantage of using the #+BEGIN.... construct?
Maybe that you could define it in the middle of the plain list....

- Carsten


- Darlan Cavalcante Moreira

At Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:07:10 +0100,
Carsten Dominik <address@hidden> wrote:


On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote:

Carsten,

I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
the slide?

** Slide

- Slide content
- Slide content

#+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
Here are the class notes for this slide...

#+END_BEAMER_NOTE


That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note.
Admittedly, properties are just as messy.

Maybe it should be

* BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide...
  more stuff....

- Carsten

Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...

Thanks.


On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
Hi everyone,

after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
think that this is, in the end, the right solution.

Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with property
BNOTE
or so as the sources of notes?

Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes. This would be easy to
turn
on with the special editing code we already have, would automatically
be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.

Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.

If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.

Input is again welcome!

- Carsten

On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:


I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note
command is
used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in
the
next
"notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note
commands in
the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a
headline
below the
frame headline seems to be a good approach.

Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other
formats one
could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already
available
feature of
not exporting headlines with a given tag.

- Darlan Cavalcante Moreira

At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
"Thomas S. Dye" <address@hidden> wrote:

Hi Daniel,

On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:

\pnote could be an option

Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes

* section
** subsection
*** frame
etc


************** notes

(I don't know how many *'s are needed)

maybe we can set a number / variable

like

org-beamer-frame-level

we could create

org-beamer-notes-level

Daniel


2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <address@hidden>:
Adam Spiers <address@hidden> wrote:

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
Moreira wrote:
In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be
in a
presentation
they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in
some cases. If
org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from
now someone
would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a
standard
footnote when
exporting to beamer.

I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
footnotes
in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for
quotations,
data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not
used
during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.

I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
handout
includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does
that,
although they *should* :-) ).

In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level
lists,
single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that
generalities
like
that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough
cause.

Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming
"X is
much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how
the
results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but
you
would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the
slides
and
visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
results
are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the
URL
was
too small to be legible from the back of the room.



How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of
footnote,
let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
footnote in
all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the
frame
and pnotes end up in the notes.

Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
makes it
sound, but who knows?[1]

Thanks,
Nick

[1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...


FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between
beamer
and LaTeX very well.

In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
presentation of a LaTeX article.

Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning
commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
(often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in
the
LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes
also
map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.

This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my
perspective
maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below
the
last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems
natural
to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have
big
chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer
presentation.

I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of
implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode
Lisp
code owing to my own illiteracy.

All the best,
Tom



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- Carsten





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