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Re: [O] Org expert mode?

From: Eric Schulte
Subject: Re: [O] Org expert mode?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:41:41 -0700
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux)


I tend to agree with Joost's sentiments.

In my opinion the current Org-mode---despite all of the power lurking
just beneath the surface---is entirely usable as a very simple plain
text notes buffer.  The user need know nothing more than how to press
tab on a headline to expand-contract it's contents.

This is how I try to introduce Org-mode to new users.

  "Just think of it as plain text notes, and whenever you realize you
   want a new feature, look in the manual... chances are someone has
   already implemented it."

Best -- Eric

Joost Helberg <address@hidden> writes:

> Bastien and others,
> When I worked in Hoofddorp in the early 90's, I travelled 2.5 hours by
> train every day. I reserved half of the train-time every single day
> for a year checking out GNU Emacs stuff I didn't understand on my
> notebook. This helped me a lot in going places (aka major modes, elisp
> code and, later, customizations) I didn't dare visiting before.
> The same is true for most of the *Customization* stuff. Seeing things
> beyond your boundaries of understanding satisfies curiosity. Checking out
> stuff you don't completely understand is part of the Emacs journey. A
> journey which is a lot more exciting than any other virtual software
> inspired journey I've encountered. 
> The creation of an `Expert mode' will make the exploration of new
> features `by accident' or by ambitious curiosity less likely. I think
> introducing an expert mode (is the plain and simple org-mode not
> already quite for experts already?) a bad thing.
> Then the semantics of `expert' come around. Expert in what field?
> Organisation? Elisp? Time-clocking? Org-mode key bindings? There must
> be over 5 different experts in using org-mode, which may be even
> overlapping.
> Personally I don't mind superfluous messages in GNU Emacs, if any.
> They disappear fast enough and don't appear to slow down things;
> though I might be wrong here of course.
> Last, but not least, org-mode users are honest people, at least to
> themselves they are, they must be! Many of them will have trouble
> admitting they're an expert in org-mode; they won't tick the
> box. They'll miss features they would otherwise try. 
> Org-mode is the best invention since sliced bread and if not, GNU
> Emacs is, keep up the good work!
> many regards,
> Joost Helberg
>>>>>> "Bastien" == Bastien  <address@hidden> writes:
>  > Subject: [O] Org expert mode?
>  > From: Bastien <address@hidden>
>  > To: address@hidden
>  > Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:05:32 +0100
>  > Hi all,
>  > Org tries to stay as simple/accessible as possible for newbie and as
>  > complete/flexible as possible for power users.
>  > The documentation and the UI are central for this: the documentation
>  > should promote core features, document complex ones, and give pointers
>  > on how to hack Org -- it does that already IMO; the UI should give
>  > access to core features and give hints on complex ones, so that the
>  > user can learn more.
>  > I've just added the ability to run a custom function for bulk agenda
>  > actions (thanks to Puneeth for the patch!)  This is clearly for power
>  > users -- or those who are willing to take the time to find functions
>  > that we might document in Worg.
>  > So I naturally thought of something like an "Org Expert mode": when
>  > turned off, the UI would *not* give access to complex features and
>  > perhaps display more helpful messages on simple ones; when turned on,
>  > Org would have a less verbose UI (think of the C-c C-e window, do we
>  > really want to *read* it all the times?) and give access to all the
>  > complex features.
>  > This is really just a call for ideas/comments -- I wonder if people
>  > already came accross such an idea and and what they think.
>  > I'm myself not convinced: it's a good thing that Org doesn't need an
>  > Expert mode so far, it means newbies are not confused by the UI, and
>  > experts are not frustrated by it either.  But I expect neat features 
>  > can emerge from the discussion.
>  > Thanks for your thoughts!
>  > -- 
>  >  Bastien

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