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Re: [Fsuk-manchester] Talking about non-free software on the list


From: Simon Ward
Subject: Re: [Fsuk-manchester] Talking about non-free software on the list
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:41:10 +0000
User-agent: Kaiten Mail


MJ Ray <address@hidden> wrote:

>Simon Ward <address@hidden>
>> This has more to do with the organisation of the project (which I’m
>not
>> saying is bad). It just shows that not all of the Debian project is
>as
>> committed to free software.
>
>They are committed to free software as almost all agreed to the social
>contract to become developers, which is a more explicit commitment
>than many free software developers make.  That doesn't mean that they
>have to oppose the non-free repository

They don't have to oppose the non-free repository. I, and others,  don't have 
to promote Debian as a free software distribution.

>What I'm questioning is how it could be moved away without what you
>call "taking a positive action for non‐free software"

It could be removed entirely.

It would be more reasonable, since there are people within Debian who would 
prefer it's continued existence, to allow some time for those who want it to 
get hosting outside of the project. Debian itself could then disassociate 
itself from the non-free software.

I'm sure the FSF would love the repository to just go away, but they're kidding 
themselves if they think it the software would not just re-appear somewhere 
else. It's on a lot of Debian mirrors for a start.

The point is that Debian should not support free software if it wants free 
software advocates to promote it as a free software distribution. If it wants 
to continue supporting non-free software, that's fine, I won't support it as a 
free software distribution (and the FSF is less likely to than I am).

>because those
>who would like its move won't want to work on that.  So I feel the
>request might be a bit insincere. Logically, it's a task that no-one
>would want to do except someone who supports the FSF more than they
>support free software, which seems like it may be an absurdity.

You just said there are people within Debian who want the continued existence 
of a non-free repository. Are they not capable of forming something outside of 
Debian?

Of course, as you said, Debian project members last voted in favour of keeping 
non-free. It may be that the project is not yet willing or ready to deliver a 
completely free distribution, in which case it should not be endorsed as such.

>> > Actually, I agree it's distributing non-free software.  That's not
>the
>> > same as the project recommending it (almost the opposite […]), or
>it
>> > being included in the system distribution.
>>
>> I disagree. By putting the effort into distributing (and
>maintaining!)
>> non‐free software, Debian is taking a positive action for non‐free
>> software.
>
>No, the debian project (not Debian, which is the system) is taking a
>positive action to support users who will abuse themselves like this,
>whether we help them to avoid damaging themselves or not.

It is all done under the Debian name. The project and the distribution are 
strongly linked. It is the project that sets the policies for the distribution. 
If the project is supportive of non-free software it reflects on the 
distribution .

Simon



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