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Re: In regards to defining GNUstep and Window Maker

From: webmaster
Subject: Re: In regards to defining GNUstep and Window Maker
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:58:42 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 address@hidden wrote:

Yes, but it is not anymore and has not been the case for years. Yet the WM still says this is the case. We don't want excuses, we just want it changed. It's not an attack on WindowMaker. I use WindowMaker (wm2, actually) and frankly most GNUstep users do too.

We're not giving excuses.  We clearly stated that we have been negligent,
and that we are going to change it.

All our intention is is to clear up misinformation. There have been several high-profile cases where people have made uninformed statements about "GNUstep" being used when in fact all it was was WindowMaker. This is bad for both of us, and it's in our mutual best interest to clear up the confusion.

That is our intention as well. But we would not have gone about it in the manner that you've chosen. Nobody from the GNUstep project contacted us to ask that the information be updated. I'm sure you'll feel that it's not your responsibility to do so. It's not our responsibility to promote GNUstep, but we do it out of common courtesy and respect for the work the GNUstep developers have put into the project. We don't think it's too much to ask that the same courtesy be extended to us.

We have had our own share of misinformed questions regarding GNUstep, and we haven't gone to the extreme of putting up a dedicated page that is worded not so nicely. Had we done so, I'm sure we would have been contacted making the same request that we are now.

We would like to try to avoid using subjective terminology such as "elegant" in a description of WindowMaker, since plenty of people think it's extremely ugly (Im not one of them but I understand what thir complaints are.)

If you read the sentence, the "elegent" part applies to the NEXTSTEP user interface, not Window Maker. If GNUstep doesn't find the interface elegant, then what's the point? The widgets in GNUstep do the same thing and look the same way.

I think it would definately be good to have the WindowMaker project use a different logo. The GNUstep logo is displayed rather prominently in the about box which you get when you click the dock. The differences you describe are trivial and I'd wager that 99% of all people out there are not going to even notice the difference.

We've heard no complaints in either direction. But we'll start working on a new logo regardless.

While you may see it this way, I, *personally* do not. I say this as someone who did not start using GNUstep and WindowMaker until several years ago. (three, I guess, now). I understand clearly that there was a time when this was the case, but it is no longer and the future is now. I don't think we've painted anyone at the "bad guys" and frankly that's not the objective. You are reading far too much into our rather simple and innocent request. We wish only that GNUstep be identified correctly instead of confused because of the identical use of logos and other such things.

Looking at the source, there are still references to at least wrlib. We don't really care as the GNUstep project is free to use our code, but it's not accurate for you to say that GNUstep doesn't share anything with the Window Maker project. If you really intend for GNUstep to be identified coorrectly, you will clarify this point.

This would be a non-issue for us had you sent us a request directly, instead of posting a page up on a website that is worded, as you said, not so nicely. There is nothing innocent about it. Given that you've been with the GNUstep project for such a short time, I understand why you might be so hasty as to discount the history between the two projects.

We'll be updating our website later tonight. When will you be making the changes to the wiki page?


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