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Re: Understanding Word Boundaries
Re: Understanding Word Boundaries
Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:33:53 +0200
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Am 16.06.2010 12:44, schrieb Paul Drummond:
I have been an Emacs users for a few years now so definitely still a
newbie! While initially I struggled to control its power, I eventually came
round. Every issue I've had so far I've been able to fix by a quick search
in EmacsWiki, except for one frustrating and re-occurring problem that has
plagued me for years - word boundaries.
Before Emacs I used Vim exclusively and the word boundary behaviour in Vim
*just worked* - I didn't even have to think about it. No matter what
language I used I could navigate and manipulate words without thinking about
it. The way word boundaries work in Vim is elegant and I have spent a lot
of time trying to find some elisp to replicate the behaviour in Emacs but to
I could write some elisp myself but I am still very new to it so it will
take a while - it's something I would like to do but I don't have time at
the moment. Regardless, an elisp solution to the problem is not the point
of this post. I want to understand why word boundaries behave the way they
do in Vanilla Emacs and I would greatly appropriate some views on this from
some Emacs Gurus!
Every time I notice the word boundary behaviour when hacking in Emacs I
wonder to myself - "I must be missing something here. Surely, experienced
Emacs users don't just *put up* with this! Yet every forum response, blog
post, mailing-list post I have read suggests they do. This is atypical of
the Emacs community in my experience. Usually when something behaves wrong
in Emacs, it's easy to find some elisp that just fixes the problem full
stop. Yet with word-boundaries all I can find is suggestions that fix a
particular gripe but nothing that provides a general solution.
I have loads of examples but I will mentioned just a few here to hopefully
kick-start further discussion.
** Example 1
I use org-mode for my journal and today I hit the word-boundary problem
while entering my morning journal entry - here's a contrived example of what
** [10:27] Understanding Word Boundaries in Emacs
With point at the end of the word "Understanding" I hit C-w (which I bind to
backward-kill-word) and the word "Understanding" is killed as expected. But
when I hit C-w again, the point kills to the colon. Why? Why is colon a
word-boundary but the closing square bracket isn't?
** Example 2
When editing C++ files I often need to delete the "ClassName::" part when
declaring functions in the header:
With point at the start of ClassName I want to press M-d twice to delete
ClassName and :: but "::" isn't recognised as a word. In Vim I just type
"dw" twice and it *just works*.
seems not a question of word-boundaries, but a feature:
as you describe, Vim says: when word-chars are under cursor, kill them.
When non-word chars are there, kill until next word.
** Example 3
I have loads of problems when deleting and navigating words over multiple
lines. In the following C++ code for instance:
Page *page = new _Page(this);
When point is after "page", before the dot on the second line and I hit M-b
(backward-word) point ends up at the first opening bracket of "Page(" !!!
Again, vim does the right thing here - pressing 'b' takes the point to the
closing bracket of Page(this) so it doesn't recognise the semi-colon as a
bracket which is intuitive and what I would expect. This is really the
point I am trying to make. I have never taken the time to understand the
behaviour of word boundaries in Vim because *it just works*. In Emacs I am
forced to think about word boundaries because Emacs keeps surprising me with
its weird behaviour!
Forward-moves stop after the object, backward-moves before.
When a mode defines '()' as word-characters, M-x backward-word will stop
at the semi-colon at your example.
Note: My examples happen to be C++ but I use lots of other languages too
word-boundaries seem to be wrong for all of them.
I have tried several different elisp solutions but each one has at least one
feature that isn't quite right. Here are some links I kept, I've tried many
other solutions but don't have the links to hand:
So to wrap up, the point of this post is to kick-start a discussion about
why the word boundaries in Vanilla Emacs (specifically GNU Emacs 22.214.171.124
in my case) seem to be so awkward and unintuitive.