Re: Test Alternative initialize scheme

[Emanuel Berg]

Nikolay Kudryavtsev wrote:

> Most of those kits are .el file based,
> usually they provide a preset ~/.emacs.d.
> Actually since having multiple configurations
> like this is somewhat common, maybe someone
> should open a feature request to implement it
> as a flag out of box, something like
> --with-user-emacs-directory...

Good idea, if now things are like this
anyway...

> It's less complicated for the end user,
> especially the new user, because successfully
> configuring Emacs for different advanced
> applications involves making dozens of
> decisions. Most of those decisions require
> some knowledge and testing. And you may still
> wound up with something controversial.
> This is even harder for a new user when
> there's already a learning curve.

It is much better if the developers put their
energy and creativity in truly advancing the
scope of the technology, rather than to putting
it together in new ways, just because the user
is supposedly too incompetent to install their
stuff on the base platform!

    1) it is a waste of creative energy

    2) the user isn't that stupid

    3) and if the user IS, s/he is much more
       benefited from leaving that state ASAP,
       rather than a tailor-made product, and
       it isn't a huge cognitive leap if anyone
       thought that

    4) and besides using that distro/kit will
       imply other issues - and how to solve
       those? yet another distro/kit - return
       to base and start over? etc. etc.

>> why not put the same effort into making the
>> software lay onto each other in
>> a straightforward way bottom-up?
>
> Because this requires each package developer
> to be aware of pretty much every package that
> may be used simultaneously with yours.
> I'm explicitly talking about Emacs here

First, does it really require a huge stack of
packages just to change *the keyboard layup*?

Second, if it does, why is this a problem?
We can go right now to M/ELPA and see that the
pack "academic-phrases", whatever that is
("Bypass that mental block when writing
your papers." :D ???), we learn that it
requires

    dash-2.12.0, s-1.12.0, ht-2.0, emacs-24

and then we can learn that "dash" (not the
shell by the way but "[a] modern list library
for Emacs"), that dash doesn't require anything
and certainly not academic-phrases, so there is
no circular or interdependency situation.
Just do it!

So this is obviously not the problem, so can
you describe it again or provide an example?

> The way to help with it upstream is providing
> protocols for package devs to use, the new
> xref is one such thing.

OK, I don't know xref (do tell!) but in
principle that's infinitely much better than
burning down the house to kill the rats -
each time.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573