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Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and
From: |
Han-Wen Nienhuys |
Subject: |
Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration |
Date: |
Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:52:49 +0200 |
User-agent: |
Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6-1.1.fc4 (X11/20050720) |
Trevor Baca wrote:
I think that stealing (or courting?) the SCORE users is an excellent
idea; they're not in the slightest bit adverse to really learning the
most detailed internals of a program and would probably bring an
excellent eye to some of the very real problems we're tackling right
now in LilyPond development: the tie problem is only the most recent
example.
(plug)
Yes - we only need a tiny bit more of money! please contribute!
Just mail to address@hidden ; the list is run by Gordon Callon in
Canada. Quite unfortunately there are no list archives :-( but, quite
happily, the list is responsive, open and professional (much like our
own, really).
Is this a conscious decision? It's easy to have a list archived
(including spam-protecting addresses) through mail-archive.com or gmane.org.
We could steal the users directly from there... But for this to
happen, we would have to reverse engineer the SCORE format.
hum, it's a binary format right? I've forgotten that.
The point of SCORE is that everything can be very easily tweaked
heavily, which is excellent for professional engravers. All those tweaks
get lost if the .pmx is imported. Since the majority of time in SCORE is
spent tweaking, I don't think importers matter much.
So, the obvious point here is that LilyPond absolutely excels at all
three of SCORE's major weaknesses:
1. LilyPond runs on absolutely everything under the sun
2. LilyPond has absolutely no memory or size limitations at all,
AFAICT; I render Lily scores with several thousands glyphs per page on
tabloid paper all the time and nothing ever breaks (well ... so long
as you turn off point-and-click!); there's absolutely *no*
circumstance under which Lily users have to separate out musical
material into separate files to accomodate an extramusical technical
requirement
(as long as you have obscene amounts of memory, that is)
3. Lily is also developed by a genius ...
::-))))
but a genius pursuing the
exact *opposite* political approach to code access and the development
cycle: Lily's not going anywhere, the sources are all available
forever, new releases show up constantly, and the only barrier to
contribution is the learning curve
So it should be clear by now where I stand: I think it's an obvious
transition for SCORE users to start moving over the Lily. They're
reluctant to give up the tool, of course, because of its
sophistication, but I think that literally every 2 or 3 weeks the
reasons to jump to Lily increase, even for the community of
professionals currently working in SCORE.
I think there is a one big problem with going to LilyPond for the
majority of SCORE users. Adding a tweak is clumsy, and you have to rerun
the program to see the result. Also the result of a tweak is less
predictable, as anything besides extra-offset might impact spacing, line
breaking, etc. Also, working with multi-page documents is a nightmare,
since page breaks are hard to get right.
Practically speaking, I think Lily can only practically replace SCORE
for single staff pieces. And then the placement of hairpins should
definitely be fixed.
I considered crossposting this response to the score list (again,
address@hidden, if anyone's interested) but thought it might be more
appropriate to let discussion run private to Lily for a while longer.
Another reflection: I feel certain that some type of constructive,
even semi-formal dialogue is possible with the SCORE community. The
wealth of accumulated knowledge there is almost unbelievable: if
you're looking for exact answers to questions of tie placement, slur
You're welcome to point the SCORE people to the LilyPond website and
perhaps this discussion. So far, of them I've only met Matanya Ophee in
cyberspace a couple of times, and (almost needless to say), I can't say
that I found the encounter constructive. I recently subscribed to the
SCORE list, but for political reasons, it would be better if someone
else would point them to the discussion.
placement, hairpin positioning on the horizontal, accidental
tesselation before complex chords, the SCORE people are a good place
to talk. I don't have the time to moderate that discussion right now
myself, but I have to imagine that there should be some way to welcome
that knowledge into Lily and help our own growth here.
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys - address@hidden - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen
LilyPond Software Design
-- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, (continued)
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Johannes Schindelin, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Pedro Kröger, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Johannes Schindelin, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Han-Wen Nienhuys, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Pedro Kröger, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Erik Sandberg, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Heikki Junes, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration,
Han-Wen Nienhuys <=
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Erik Sandberg, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Han-Wen Nienhuys, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Erik Sandberg, 2005/08/20
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Hans Aberg, 2005/08/20
- Page breaks, was: something else, Mats Bengtsson, 2005/08/22
- Re: Page breaks, was: something else, Han-Wen Nienhuys, 2005/08/22
- Re: Page breaks, was: something else, Erik Sandberg, 2005/08/22
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Trevor Baca, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Han-Wen Nienhuys, 2005/08/18
- Re: Sponsoring lilypond development Was Re: Score parts: instrument and duration, Hans Aberg, 2005/08/18