Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)

[-Eluze]

David Kastrup wrote:
> 
> -Eluze <address@hidden> writes:
> 
>> yes, but the term Taktzahl is mainly found in technical contexts!
> 
> I was talking about "Taktzahlen". 
> 
what's wrong about using the singular?


> 
>  Let's see where this leads Google:
> 
>     Results for: taktzahlen
>     #
>     Musiksoftware Forum: Taktzahlen bei Sibelius
> 
> One for me.
> 
is Sibelius the reference now?


>     #
>     Ulrich Siegele: Taktzahlen als Ordnungsfaktor in Suiten- und ...
> 
> Nontechnical, but measure count.
> 
yes, we are talking about measures!


>     #
>     Research centre Beethoven-Archiv
>      - [ Translate this page ]
>     Sie vermuten ganz richtig, die Taktzahlen stammen nicht von den
> Komponisten, ... Taktzahlen wurden erst sehr spät im 19. Jahrhundert
> eingeführt. ...
> 
> Point for me.
> 
no - you can't claim Beethoven as a protagonist since obviously he did not
use "Taktzahlen"


> 
> 
>> in a musical context it often means the number of measures which
>> e.g. build a verse (in german: die (An-) Zahl (der) Takte
> 
> Not really "often".
> 
often enough - and many meanings have disappeared or have been perverted
because people did not really understand them; if a majority uses a word in
a special meaning this does not mean other meanings are wrong!



>> obviously you can say: "Die Nummer des Taktes wird durch eine Zahl
>> über dem Taktstrich angezeigt" but not "Die Nummer des Taktes wird
>> durch eine Nummer über dem Taktstrich angezeigt".
> 
> Uh, you are aware that you are arguing against your own proposal here?
> 
not really - here i just state that the number ("Nummer") or the measure is
referenced by a "Zahl" which implies that the "Nummer/Takt" is the higher
context. this also means that the "Takt" or "Taktnummer" has a meaning by
itself whereas the "Zahl" is nothing for itself. if you use the term
"Taktzahl" you are on the "wrong" level, but still many would understand
what is meant.



> I've also seen "Taktziffern" in composition competition rules, but that
> term makes my technical hide crawl, since its translation would be
> "measure digits".  "Ziffern" are strictly the letters 0 to 9.
> 
"Wie hoch würden Sie den Schaden beziffern?" nobody would limit this to a
letter, in America they would claim for millions!

anyway, thanks for this discussion!
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