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Re: lilypond-devel Digest, Vol 90, Issue 84

From: Carl Sorensen
Subject: Re: lilypond-devel Digest, Vol 90, Issue 84
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 07:44:01 -0600

On 5/28/10 6:32 AM, "Kieren MacMillan" <address@hidden>

> Hi James,
>> my point is that it really isn't that hard to set up even for a complete
>> beginner.
> I've done Java programming in Eclipse with WebObjects Frameworks and WOLips --
> the setup for that was "complicated" (i.e., tedious and time-consuming), but I
> was able to accomplish it on three different machines (three different OSes),
> first time every time. I've installed full LaTeX installations on several
> different machines and OSes; again, first time each time. In fact, I've done a
> number of fairly complex installations -- database servers, web servers, and
> so on -- and most have gone smoothly, where eventually (if not on the first
> try every time) the installation was complete and stable.
> I tried two different times to install a Lilypond build system on my [own,
> well-known] machine -- with the help of the "experts" on these lists -- to no
> avail.
> I refuse to believe it's my incompetence alone that caused this problem.  :-p

It's not at all your incompetence that caused the problem.

There is no distributed development environment for LilyPond that is
available for OS/X.  And IIRC, you are working on Snow Leopard, which is
somewhat different from Leopard (where I am working).  So the challenge of
installing a LilyPond development environment on OS/X is really the
challenge of *creating* a development system.

One of the things we don't have the resources to do is to ship development
systems that work on all Oses.  But the executable seems to work on all

>> I use a 1.5GB VM
> I wish someone had suggested a VM when I *first* started to set up the
> environment -- as Carl noted, by the time someone (Graham?) suggested a VM, I
> was already beyond frustrated with the huge number of hair-pulling hours I had
> already spent trying to get a simple doc build to happen.
> I'm happy to continue with the VM install I've started... but Graham (the
> expert, AFAICT) is recommending that I wait.

I don't want to put words in Graham's mouth, but I believe that the only
reason he is recommending that you wait is that you made an ultimatum,
saying that if the VM install didn't work, you'd never try again.  Under
those conditions, he wants to be 100% sure it will work.  And he can't
assure that right now.

Personally, I think that you've got a better than 90% chance that lilybuntu
on a VM will install painlessly.  But with your potential as a developer,
neither he nor I wants to risk losing you for good, so he asked you to wait.

My personal preference would be for you to be willing to risk some specified
maximum time now (say, 2 hours), and agree to try once more when Graham can
guarantee success if you can't get the install to work. I think that in less
than 2 hours, you'd be up and running (although the doc build might take
that much clock time, you can walk away and leave it).

But as long as the "this is my last time ever to try" statement is on the
table, our only reasonable choice is to have you wait.



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