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Re: proportional notation screws up score

From: Orm Finnendahl
Subject: Re: proportional notation screws up score
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 22:54:38 +0100
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.11

Hi Trevor,

thanks for the reply. When the piece is done it can be used for

True proportional notation isn't exactly what I need and is far from
desirable as the accidentals would always collide with barlines etc.

I made much better experiences with shifting or removing extra spaces
at the right spots to make it look as if it is spaced proportionally.

Maybe there is a way to describe to Han-Wen what is needed, once I
found out, how to achieve the right results using lilypond. Right now
it is a very tedious and time-consuming task to redefine the spacing
for nearly every measure and then waiting for the engine to render it
and optimize the result. There should be some notion of a global
timing which can be related to lilyponds typesetting engine meaning
that if some note constructs take up extra space, the next or previous
notes should be adjusted to compensate for the loss, ideally the error
should get stretched out over a couple of notes to make it look nicer.


Am 03. Dezember 2006, 15:26 Uhr (-0600) schrieb Trevor Bača:
> On 12/3/06, Orm Finnendahl <address@hidden> wrote:> Hi 
> Trevor, Han-Wen,>> thanks a lot for your efforts to help me out and thanks 
> a lot for your> ideas and thoughts! Sorry if I sounded desperate. Trevor's 
> post seems> to indicate that it might not work out to get everything 
> perfectly> aligned (although I was very close for the first three lines 
> before> the spacing engine freaked out).  I can live with that at the 
> moment> if I can get it "roughly" correct by aligning the barlines of the> 
> graph and the music at every tempo change for example. The musicians> will 
> have a rehearsal CD anyway to relate their playing to the tape.>> If I got 
> it right, I should skip the whole idea of changing the value> of the 
> proportionalNoteDuration during the piece.>> My questions:>> 1. How do I 
> change the spacing-increment in mid-music?>> I tried \override 
> Score.SpacingSpanner #'space-increment = #2.8>> but this seems to set the 
> spacing increment once and for all. Changing> Staff.SpacingSpanner didn't 
> seem to change anything.
> See mail from just a second ago, but short answer:
> \newSpacingSection\override Score.SpacingSpanner #'space-increment = #2.8
> >If that is impossible the minimum I could get away with would be to> set 
> >ragged-right to ##f and set the width of each staff system to> align with 
> >the graph. But as far as I understood, the page-width can> only get 
> >globally set in the \page layout block. Is there a way?
> I wouldn't do this; real proportional scores should be ragged right 
> onnearly every line (depending on the rhythmic duration of the line, 
> ofcourse) and ragged-right = ##t is the semantically correct way to dothis 
> in Lily.
> >Am 03. Dezember 2006, 10:29 Uhr (-0600) schrieb Trevor Bača:> > So if you 
> >have time after you finish the violin piece, perhaps wecould> > together 
> >contact Han-Wen and ask first for advice on what suchan> > enhancement 
> >might look like (like how would a "graph paper" spacingpackage> > get 
> >turned on and off, and how could it be reset in mid-inputto accommodate> > 
> >tempo changes as occur here in the violin piece?) andsecond on whether we> 
> >> could sponsor such work sometime in the 2.11series of releases.> > If 
> >you're interested, please let me know and I'll be happy to sponsor.>> 
> >Great idea! I'm in of course, thanks for the offer!
> Yes, of course; however, it sounds like Han-Wen's suggestions fromearlier 
> today probably *can* get really true proportional spacing, ifall settings 
> are used correctly in concert with each other.
> Try stripping out all spacing settings *except immediately following 
> a\newSpacingSection command* and see if that gets it. And make sure toset 
> uniform-stretching = ##t to that you measure-long skips get 
> spacedcorrectly, too.
> And if you can get it, then it sure would be nice to prepare a page ofyour 
> score as a HOW-TO for inclusion in the manual (which I'd be happyto 
> coauthor with you). OTOH, if we definitely can not produce trueproportional 
> spacing from the existing package, then my offer forsponsorship is of 
> course still open (I just don't want to ask Han-Wenfor work that we don't 
> actually need!).
> Good luck!
> -- Trevor address@hidden

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