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Re: Quit [now definitely O/T]

From: David Kastrup
Subject: Re: Quit [now definitely O/T]
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:31:57 +0100
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux)

> I'm not topposting

Third attempt because of topposting automoderation -- this _is_ a

Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden> writes:


I don't see the "now definitely O/T" you put in the subject line.  The
subject was that somebody quit, and we are talking about the reasons.


>> It is too cheap to put this down to "faster".  The problem is not
>> that you need longer to do some things with Lilypond initially.  The
>> problem is that there is a large number of things for which there is
>> no proper way to do them at all, and you have to take out the
>> crowbar.
> As is also true with Finale/Sibelius/etc.

If I have to wield a crowbar rather than _saying_ what I want, I prefer
at least seeing where I hit.  WYSIWYG.


> Any chance you can/will improve it?


> if it matters to you or others, by all means make it better!


> Patch?


> 1. Define a music function to do this.
> 2. Submit a patch.


> I couldn't agree more! [See Steps 1&2, above.]

I think that sums up very well why somebody would prefer not working
with Lilypond.  Not only do you have to rely on expert advice, but the
main advice is "please do what an expert would do, or shut up".

If there is no reasonable way to become an expert, this is equivalent to
"Lilypond is not for you.  Go away."  Which is what the original poster

Now I am in the situation of being an expert _programmer_.  If you had
actually bothered taking a look at recent postings of mine on the
developer list, you would have noticed that I am trying to get some
functionality into Lilypond.  There is little enough useful information
to go by, there is very little advice on the list (Carl was the only one
to give any pointers given repetitive requests for advice or reviews),
there is no "big picture" you get for how to work which functionality in

The problem is that this state does not just turn away prospective
users, it also turns away prospective _programmers_ who could help
moving Lilypond further on its roadmap, according to its design and

But if there is roadmap, design and vision, I have not yet been able to
find it in the obvious places I have been looking for.

And that means that not only do I have to do all the coding for my task,
I also have to invent interfaces which may be completely inconsistent
with what other people with special instruments do.  And I don't _want_
to have my code just remain in the state of some ad-hoc snippet.  I want
it to become part of Lilypond proper so that the next person will not
have to start at the same point again.

For me, this situation is awkward, impeding and dissatisfactory.  For
others, it is reason to go away.  I don't see that anything is gained
for chastising me for my impression.  That is merely shooting the
messenger.  Actually, more than the messenger.

David Kastrup

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