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Re: LYNX-DEV SSL, Lynx & US Law

From: Filip M Gieszczykiewicz
Subject: Re: LYNX-DEV SSL, Lynx & US Law
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:41:29 -0600 (CST)

You (Scott McGee (Personal)) wrote:
> Philip,
Who, me? :-)
> Sounds sorta like you have a chip on your shoulder wrt US laws. The simple 
> fact is, those of us who live in the US _ARE_ subject to US export laws 
> even if we do disagree with them. Wise US citizens are unwilling to risk
> antagonizing federal officials who have already shown that they are quite
> happy to "make an example" of someone who didn't really do anything wrong,
> but just got involved in the issue. If you have Lynx SSL patches or code,
> I guess you can do what you want with them, but asking US citizens who have
> such to take the risk is pretty easy for you to do since you won't be the
> one who might loose everything they own defending the case.

True.. and the more people there are that don't question the ultimate
legality of the law... the easier it will be to enact a more bold one next
time around... Today there is a sliver of "support" for those who even
gently oppose everything govn't does... will there be any in a world
populated totally by "YOU" (collective)? Nope... we'll be screwed for good.
You might want that... I grew up in then-communist Poland - figure out
for yourself where I stand on this. BTW, I use my nugget when I feel that
a law is unjust.. there are much more effective ways of changing it than
blowing up FBI buildings and exporting "munitions" [smirk]

> Let me assure you that many of us in the US are just as adamant as you in
> feeling that US law cannot practically be applied to the Internet, and 
> should not attempt to be so applied, but until our politicians and 
> lawmakers "pull their heads out", there is little we can do but lobby for
> more reasonable laws. Don't ask us to break or help you break those we
> are already subject to.

Eh? Where did you read that?

> Oh, and France was cited as one country that does not allow crypto; quite
> a bit different category than Serbia or Belarus, huh?

Nope. Just as repressive. Serbia and Belarus are a mess... I believe the
french regard themselves as civilized and, uhm, "refined"... Besides,
what's your point comparing those countries? France is worried more about
its citizens having free information trade than either of the other two.

> One final thing. I have copies of Fote's SSL stuff. Don't ask me to send
> you copies, however, as I am not all that sure that either you might be
> plant by US export officials and I'd wake up the next day in jail, or that

HAHAHAHAHA! Good one. If I had hacked the multibookmarks to gain your collective
trust, why did the implementations suck rocks? I figure that if I was a
plant, I would have gotten a better response with some brilliant rewrite
of some tricky lynx code. My my... if you didn't hate guns so much, you'd
sleep with one under your pillow.

[Thanks, I needed a good chuckle today!]

> said officials might be monitoring this forum (plenty of things here to
> wake up their monitoring software) and I'd still wake up in jail. It just
> isn't worth that to me, nor, I suspect, to other US lynx-dev members. 

One of these days you'll wake up in jail ... tis true, but only probably
for giving the gov't too much credit and liberty - at risk to your own
liberty. Remember, the government in the USA has identical goal as that
in Russia, Nazi Germany, and Columbia... what makes us better then them
is that thing getting trampled right now: US Constitution. "We the people",
and all that jazz, remember? What changes politics is "we" telling "them"
(those who represent us) that we don't like it. We need to be forceful
and put our money where our mouth is. I try to do that and stay on the
legal side of the law... I see you take a "back burner" approach to this
and sort of live in a little dream world that it got this way because of
some bad people but "I'm sure the politicians are working to reverse that".
You gotta scream and shout and raise hell. Or do you believe in:

"We're the govn't and we're here to help UUUU" ...

That's what they told my grandfathers back in Poland in the 50's... and
then royally screwed us all enough to make my family to emigrate here. If
the USA falls down the hell-hole... tell me, where do I/we go?

> Scott McGee: Salt Lake Community College Webmaster | When in danger,
> ___________________________________________________| or in doubt,
> Email: address@hidden (Scott McGee)         | run in circles,
> Web: | scream and shout.

Useful... I guess you make yourself harder to hit by the sharpshooters :-)
Didn't work for Mr. Weaver, I fear... or his un-armed wife... Sorry to
burst your bubble: the Fed is NOT on your side when it comes to encryption!

Hey, you take your "fluffy bunny" approach to this, and I'll take my
"ruff and tuff and slick" approach... what matters is that we both get
that same objective. You worry about your own stuff. I don't squeal.

Take care.

P.S. The more I read this, the more I think that there is some other guy on
this group called "Philip" and he's talking to him. I mean, he can't be this
ridiculous. Scott, you're amazing... and you don't want to know what I think
of you.
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