LYNX-DEV Re: tagging files, not URLs

[gregory j. rosmaita]

aloha, fote!

i guess i didn't know what i was asking when i asked for the download
options page hyperlink, but perhaps it could simply say something
along the following lines:

                                                          Lynx Download Options

                     DOWNLOAD OPTIONS (LYNX VERSION 2-4-2)

   You have the following download choices.
   Please select one:

   [1]Save to disk

   No other download methods have been defined yet.  You may define
   an unlimited number of download methods using the lynx.cfg file.
   Consult the online 'H'elp for more information about personalizing 
   the lynx.cfg file.

ok--so perhaps personalizing isn't the optimal word, but you get the
point...

and my point is that not alot of people know what the lynx.cfg file is,
let alone what it does, how to use it, and how to force lynx to use a
local lynx.cfg file...  the spartan termonology used on the current
download options menu is too cryptic for the average user--not finding a
lynx.cfg file when they list the files in their directory, they are likely
to conclude that "this is something my sys admin needs to do"...  and, if
as i did when i was a net novice, they do email their sys admin they are
likely to receive the same response i did (and which i forwarded to the
list, but hicom.net was unable to connect to flora.org, so i can't cite
the URL)

        HUH?

a response that evoked a sharp response from you fote, which eventually
led to that server's version of lynx being upgraded from 2.37 to 2.4 a
week and a half before 2.4.2 was released!

hell, here at hicom, i get them to upgrade by sending them the patches as
they are issued, but the universal lynx.cfg file still points to the 2.37b
helpfiles at ukans, even though each patch is accompanied by a brand
spanking new, updated lynx.cfg file for placement in /usr/local/lib

speaking of lynx.cfg files, is the lynx.cfg file backwardly compatible?
will lynx just ignore any of the configurations that don't apply, or have
things changed so radically between 2.3 and 2.6 that version-specific
lynx.cfg files are necesary?

and if the answer to the above question is "no", then the lynx.cfg file in
the "Documents from the Lynx Distribution" archive

        http://www.crl.com/~subir/lynx/2.6/

desperately needs to be updated, as it is so old (it's datestamped 3
september 1996) that it points to 

        http://www.nyu.edu/pages/wsn/subir/lynx

subir, if fote and rob don't have any objection, would it be possible to
keep this file updated (at least as current as hiram's update patch), so
that when sys admins give in and upgrade, but forget to update the
/usr/local/lib/lynx.cfg file and the usersdef.h files, individuals can 
at least grab the most up-to-date lynx.cfg file for their own personal
use?

i have an updated, speech-tailored default lynx.cfg and .lynxrc files at:

        http://leb.net/blinux/blynx

h t t p colon slash slash l e b dot n e t slash b l i n u x slash b l y n x

which can be grabbed from the front page....  there is also a speech-tailored 
2-6FM lynx.cfg file in the defaults/lynx2-6FM subdirectory--say the word
(that is, whether or not using the 2-6FM will screw up someone who is
stuck on a system using 2.3) and i will make it the default lynx.cfg file
linked to the front page...

is the .lynxrc backwardly compatible, too?

>       It's unfortunate that Al directed the discussion about the
> your BLYNX efforts to the ListElves list, and that you did comply and
> conduct the discussion there unbeknowst (sp? 8-) to the larger Lynx
> community on either the lynx-dev or lynx-learners lists.

well, i wouldn't blame al--i thought that listelves was an "official"
sublist of lynx-dev, dedicated solely to the documentation and
publicization of lynx...

> I am puzzled
> by Al's recent statements, and also would prefer that you and the blind
> users provide direct feedback.  I had reorganized the main help page
> in accordance with what seemed the consensus in that discussion, and
> under the impression that you would be continuing to maintain a help
> file set optimized for the blind.

i am, and i will--i have a postponed message on the subject lying in wait
at leb.net, which i will be posting as soon as i log in over there after i
finish up here (damn work!)

> I thought you concurred with Subir
> that there was no need to make the standard help as spacey as that
> optimized for the blind.  I rereorganized the main help pages essentially
> as in Subir's second draft.   The lines with more then one link have them
> separated by '|' characters, as recommended in the accessibility guide,
> which, of course, I read as carefully as I do RFCs and IETF or W3C drafts,
> and I ensured that none of the lines would wrap or throw off the formating
> when LINKS_ARE_NUMBERED is on.

well, i have been remiss in not applauding your work (i've also been
swamped with work that has kept me from paying as close attention to
lynx-dev as i would like, which was the initial appeal of a sub-list such
as listelves) and besides, i have my 'h' pointing at

        http://leb.net/blinux/blynx/lynx_help_main.html

the purpose of stretching things out, though, is to help those who don't
have LINKS_ARE_NUMBERED on, because they don't know that you can turn it
on...  and even with vertical bars between multiple links that occupy a
single line are confusing, especially since the vertical bar is filtered
out by a lot of screen readers when set to "say some" or even "say most",
but yes, it does help (and so does listening carefully)

> The "Speech-Friendly Help Files" link has
> by far the longest string, is on it's own line, and should "stand out"
> for audio or braille interfaces. 

it does, and for that i thank you heartily...  i think that even i would
have found a way of getting to it when i first got online and didn't know
about numbered links and how to force lynx to SHOW_CURSOR (especially that
now i'm using a screen-reader that allows me to search for text-strings
with the voice cursor and route the pc cursor to it--something which i
could do with my original setup)

> In the case where the standard main
> help is installed, a blind user would press 'h' and then the number of
> that link to access your BLYNX file set, and presumeably you would make
> it available for local installation via blind users' configuration files.

yes--as i indicated above, this is alrealy so, but the user who doesn't 
have numbered lynx on is still in the dark, if you'll pardon the pun... 

but, this should be rectified by some intensive URL registering and
propagandizing on blindness-specific lists and sites, which i've been
holding off doing until i had time to go through the entire 
Lynx_users_guide with a fine toothed q-tip and had time to get some
feedback from the members of lynx-learners, lynx-dev, and listelves...

> The two acronyms HTML and HTTP appear without definition, but I did
> not anticipate that would be a problem since you also use them in your
> file set without definition.  I also included the W3C acronym as follows
> "The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)", which does define it.

i figured that if someone didn't know what HTML or HTTP was, they'd simply
follow the link to find out...  the second from last link on the second
help screen defined (W3C), but i also just added the full name of the org
to the help on URLs link, too...

>       What I took away from that discussion ;(unfortunately on ListElves):
> is that the PRE formatted diagrams of the navigation commands are much
> less than optional for blind users, but the "Speech-Friendly Help Files"
> link takes them straight away to your textual explanation, so I do not
> see this as a case of needing to choose selectively between what is
> optimal for the sighted versus blind, but instead we can offer both to
> both.

sounds reasonable to me...  would you be opposed to my linking the
textual navigation pages to the speech-specific Lynx_users_guide.html?

>       Enjoy!

i certainly do, and wouldn't be able to--hell, i'd be unemployed--if it
weren't for lynx!
                gregory
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