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Re: lynx-dev Re: lynx should respect LANG


From: Henry Nelson
Subject: Re: lynx-dev Re: lynx should respect LANG
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:32:15 +0900 (JST)

> > [Wouldn't quote anything I say.]  If I got a mail in sjis while my emulation
> > was set to receive/transmit euc, I would indeed be in trouble.  (Wouldn't
> 
> Does such mail occur in practice?

Yes.  I just got one from a student last week which forced me to kill a
"screen".  For some reason the filter did not work right.  On a mailing
list I belong to (distributed by a procmail rule before the general nkf
filter kicks in), there is one guy who occasionally posts in sjis, and
it usually means I either have to terminate the "screen," or worse, logout
and telnet in again.

However, it is becoming more and more rare.  It only happens when someone
is using old mail software (Even on Windows95; I guess because it's what
they're used to.).  I'm rather suspicious of Mac users, too, but I'm not
sure if this is true.

> > even be able to read any warning from metamail, would I?)  That's why I have
> > nkf as a (procmail) filter to turn all mail into iso-2022-jp on un*x.  I'm
> > sure there's a better way, but that's all I know how to do.
> 
> > > Is it true that all terminal emulators that understand euc-jp also
> > > understand iso-2022-jp directly (without the user having to switch modes)?
> > > I checked kterm, kon, and krxvt, they all seem to, at least for JISX0208
> > 
> > The only (telnet-like) terminal emulators I know only do euc-jp or sjis.
> 
> If your your mail (always in iso-2022-jp after conversion, as you've
> described above) , when shown directly with cat or similar, shows up
> correctly, then your terminal emulator[*] does understand iso-2022-jp.

It shows up "correctly," AFAIK, but of course not kanji, but rather escape
codes and ascii, e.g., "$BJ8It>J(B", Ministry of Education, in euc _looks_, 
i.e.,
[esc] replaced with ^[, like "^[$BJ8It>J^[(J" when you view it in vi.
You'll only see kanji if you view the mail with "mail" or look at it in "lynx."

> > I know "you" doesn't mean me, but JFYI, I only use text, i.e., telnet in.
> 
> "Telnet in" from what?  If it's a Windows telnet client, then the terminal
> emulation is probably part of it.  In UNIX, telnet clients are separate

Sorry; from a Windows98 machine using TeraTerm.

> That seems to be the agreed-upon standard for Japanese e-mail, to use
> ISO 2022 based encoding for interchange (but not necessarily for other
> CJK languages).  But I was wondering how often you encounter exceptions

"Occasionally," but becoming more and more rare.

> THe actual logic (in lynx) seems to be that if the document is labelled (by
> the author or Web site) as a specific charset, then that takes precedence
> over guessing ('autodetection').  That's how I understand the changes that
> are now in 2.8.3, although right now I'm not sure this is always the case.
> 
> I also think this is how it should be, do you disagree?

No, I do not disagree.  What I said in the previous message was incorrect.
The way lynx is now after Hataguchi's changes seems to be the best.

> > Finally, I want to be able to do a manual override.
> 
> Do you do that now, with lynx?  I'm curious, how often does that situation
> come up?

No.  I figure if the document is so bunged up that Lynx can't make sense of
it, then it's probably not worth looking at anyway.  One or two "mojibake"
(characters rendered as something other than they are) don't bother me so
much, though many Japanese natives seem to find it intolerable.

> To answer the "why":  So you can see the characters correctly.
> Well not exactly the characters (which may not be in your Japanese
> fonts), but lynx's 7-bit replacements for them, "(c)" for ©,
> "e" for é, and so on.

Okay.  I'll try it more often now, maybe.

> I am not sure what you mean here.  Are you talking about viewing a
> copyright sign character as an actual copyright sign glyph in your
> font?  How do you do that in your Japanese environment?

I don't know.

__Henry

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