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Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Project Structure

From: Dan Kuykendall
Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Project Structure
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 07:10:21 -0700
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507

Lars Kneschke(priv.) wrote:
I fear that you have this opinion. As you say, you "wrote". It's a long time
ago, that you contributed something important. Jengo and skeeter too. phpGW
would not be that nice as it is, without the work of the other developers.
They fixed many,many bugs and improved many apps/api in the past. Without
that your code would be unuseable today.

Yes, this has been a community effort. But I dont think you can say that the founding four (plus milosch) are not responsible for the vast amount of what makes up phpGW.

Your opinnion to this topic makes we very angry. You have legally right on
your site. Morally not! You just ignore the work of all other contributors.
But most of us live in free countries, where anyone can have it is oppinion.

I do not ignore all the work of the team. I know phpGW has been a community effort and its a blast to work on (most of the time). I feel I do have the moral right to own the trademark and domain, because these two things I worked very hard on. The phpGW brand was largely build on my efforts to promote the project throught the community. Its is the only real power I have over the project.

common sense is the key. You know how communitys work togehter. There become
allways some people "leaders", because they do important work for the
project. No one will vote you out, if you do important work for the project.
If you don't do important work, no one will vote for you.

To me it seems like common sense is not always used. Maybe it can be argued that this even applies for me. But it seems like an obvious thing to anyone that knows me that I would rather have phpGW forked than to have any other than the founding four try and dump me from the project.

Sorry Dan! We don't write this make you angry. We have the feeling that you
are not responsible.

Per what criteria? You act as if I hold up development by telling you what you can and cant do. I dont!

I can remeber how long it did take to get write access
to the api again. It is also bad when we can't remove cvs locks, but you can
,but we can't reach you.

The CVS is run on savannah. The savannah hackers can fix these things.

It is also bad when you not activly join
discussions on the devel list. Yout want to be a leader. That is ok! But please act like a leader. It is
not part of the normal developers to search for the leader.

Yes, I am not as active as I want to be. This was not by choice. My work life and personal life got very busy in the last year.

What consititues inactivity? IRC time?

common sense of the community again! I'm to lazy to give examples. I think
anyone can think of good examples.

I think its something that needs defining. Otherwise people will start to lose their contributor status based on how people feel.

A translator is important to. Who says that i can't code php, just because i
 translate phpgw to german? Some things just needs discussion, to find the
pros and the cons. At least the core team make the last decission.

I meant that the translator is not as imporant in the discussion of the API as an API person. I have this explained in the email I sent for improving the propsed structure

OK. Now you have cleared up the limit of the CT. Basicly you want it
run by popular vote of the contributors. This is terribly flawed because
people outside of the issue are of equal vote.

Where possible! SOme fundamental things should be resolved in the community.
Example: Should we switch to support only php 4.3.0? Such a important should be discussed in the public.

Yes, this would be a good example of something that effects the entire community, and popular vote would work.

This is just wrong. Not all contributions are equal. Maybe this isnt
"politically correct" to say, but its the truth. Each member of
current core team has individually contributed more than all others combined. I think its handy to have stuff translated to spanish, but thats just not compariable to somewhere around 20,000 lines of code and about 3500 hours which I have personally pumped into phpGW.

I do not agree with you.

I really dont know how you can disagree, but OK.

The idea of this document was to make a fork not needed. I think it is wrong
to go this way. It will only split user- and developerbase, which is not
good for any project.

I dont agree. It can be good at times. Sometimes forks are the only way to accomplish certain goals. Its generally best when they merge back together at some point... but forks are certainly not always bad.


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