Re: [Qemu-devel] VMDK development plan for Summer of Code 2011

[Stefan Hajnoczi]

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Kevin Wolf <address@hidden> wrote:
> Am 06.06.2011 12:53, schrieb Stefan Hajnoczi:
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Kevin Wolf <address@hidden> wrote:
>>> Am 02.06.2011 00:11, schrieb Stefan Hajnoczi:
>>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Alexander Graf <address@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01.06.2011, at 11:11, Kevin Wolf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 01.06.2011 10:49, schrieb Alexander Graf:
>>>>>>> There is one very useful use-case of VMDK files that we currently don't 
>>>>>>> support: remapping.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A vmdk file can specify that it really is backed by a raw block device, 
>>>>>>> but only for certain chunks, while other chunks of it can be mapped 
>>>>>>> read-only or zero. That is very useful when passing in a host disk to 
>>>>>>> the guest and you want to be sure that you don't break other partitions 
>>>>>>> than the one you're playing with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It can also shadow map those chunks. For example on the case above, the 
>>>>>>> MBR is COW (IIRC) for the image, so you can install a bootloader in 
>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hm, wondering if that's something to consider for qcow2v3, too... Do you
>>>>>> think it's still useful when doing this on a cluster granularity? It
>>>>>> would only work for well-aligned partitions then, but I think that
>>>>>> shouldn't be a problem for current OSes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, we could always just hack around for bits where it overlaps. When 
>>>>> passing in a differently aligned partition for example, we could just 
>>>>> declare the odd sector as COW sector and copy the contents over :). 
>>>>> Though that might not be what the user really wants. Hrm.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically, additionally to the three cluster types "read from this
>>>>>> image", "COW from backing file" and "zero cluster" we could introduce a
>>>>>> fourth one "read/write to backing file".
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup, sounds very much straight forward! Then all we need is some tool to 
>>>>> create such a qcow file :)
>>>>
>>>> If we want to implement mini-device mapper why not do it as a separate
>>>> BlockDriver?  This could be useful for non-qcow2 cases like *safely*
>>>> passing through a physical disk with a guarantee that you won't
>>>> destroy the MBR.  Also if we do it outside of an image format we don't
>>>> need to worry about clusters and can do sector-granularity mapping.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, if we want mini-device mapper, that could be used to
>>>> implement the VMDK multi-file support too.  So if Fam writes a generic
>>>> BlockDriver extent mapper we can use it from VMDK but also from
>>>> command-line options that tie together qcow2, qed, raw, etc images.
>>>
>>> Does it really work for Alex' case, where you have some parts of an
>>> image file that you want to be COW and other parts that write directly
>>> to the backing file?
>>>
>>> Or to put it in a more general way: Does it work when you reference an
>>> image more than once? Wouldn't you have to open the same image twice?
>>
>> Here is an example of booting from a physical disk:
>>
>> [mbr][/dev/zero][/dev/sda]
>>
>> mbr is a COW image based on /dev/sda.
>>
>> /dev/zero is used to protect the first partition would be.  The guest
>> only sees zeroes and writes are ignored because the guest should never
>> access this region.
>>
>> /dev/sda is the extent containing the second partition (actually we
>> could just open /dev/sda2).
>>
>> Here we have the case that you mentioned with /dev/sda open as the
>> read-only backing file for mbr and as read-write for the second
>> partition.  The question is are raw images safe for multiple opens
>> when at least one is read-write?  I think the answer for raw is yes.
>> It is not safe to open non-raw image files multiple times.
>
> Yes, it would work for raw images. But should we really introduce
> concepts that only work with raw images?
>
>> I'm also wondering if the -blockdev backing_file=<backing> option that
>> has been discussed could be used in non-raw cases.  Instead of opening
>> backing files by name, specify the backing file block device on the
>> command-line so that the same BlockDriverState is shared, avoiding
>> inconsistencies.
>>
>> The multiple opener issue is orthogonal to device mapper support.
>
> Well, no. If the only use case for the device mapper thing means that we
> need to open images twice, there's no point in implementing it without
> solving the multiple opener problem first.

Protecting physical disk partitions is one use case, the other use
case was for implementing VMDK multi-file support, which is why I
mentioned Fam.

Stefan