RE: [avr-gcc-list] using the 43USB355 (was - Using IAR compile d lib with GCC?)

[Keith Gudger]

Bryan:

I'll get to work on the boss & code (in that order :).  

What (we think) is nice about our current crop of AVR / USB devices is
that a lot of what others do in hardware is left to firmware.  That gives
us a lot more flexability.  In my chats with other USB chip/firmware
developers, I hear some amazing horror stories about what you cannot /
have to do when most of the stuff is in hardware.  I'm sure the
participants on this list can appreciate this...

There are 2 components of the firmware:  hardware configuration and USB
interrupt / response routines.  Configuring the hardware is easy.  All of
the many interrupt routines to satisfy the USB requirements - that's a lot
of effort.  The code must pass chapter 9 (and chapter 11 for the hub).  To
save code space, our library uses the same routines for the hub and the 
function.  That's why there isn't a separate hub and function library.  We
put a lot of effort into using pointers and structures so that we could
reuse the code.

BTW, if you crack open an x-box controller, you'll find the AT43USB355.
Winning that design required a bulletproof library.  That's partly why we
say the USB libraries have been thoroughly checked out.

Keith

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Bryan Jarmain wrote:

> The 355 seems to be a really nice device (even without the HUB), but the USB
> configuration side seems to be very difficult to configure, and example code
> would go a long way in making the device more usable.
> 
> I never immagined that the hub would have firmware that would need to be
> protected - logically and traditionally these types of propriatry features
> are typically hidden in hardware. I believe that if the hub firmware needs
> to be protected, this could be most elegantly done in a separate "hub
> library" - but this is just my own speculative opinion.
> 
> So, function only example firmware would be really great and helpfull. 
> It would help substantually with using the device more efficiently. An open
> function only library would also serve a similar purpose, and would be
> usefull to many other potential users.
> 
> I look forward to your success in getting this open function code together
> :-)
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Gudger [mailto:address@hidden 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 5:12 PM
> To: Jason Kyle
> Cc: Bryan Jarmain; address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [avr-gcc-list] using the 43USB355 (was - Using IAR compiled lib
> with GCC?)
> 
> Here is the story about the 355 libraries.  The reason for not releasing
> the source code is to protect the code for the hub.  If you look around,
> you will find that "other USB devices" are function only.  Sorry, but it
> appears we have something worth protecting in the hub.
> 
> Are you are building a function only device?  If so, maybe I should put
> together code that works only for a function.  Maybe the boss will let me
> release that source code?  If that's what you want, I'll look into
> releasing a GCC version.
> 
> Keith
> 
> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, Jason Kyle wrote:
> 
> > At 09:24 01/09/2003 +0200, Bryan Jarmain wrote:
> > >I recently tried to use the AT43USB355, but could not get the USB side to
> > >work, even after quite considerable effort. I found the root cause to be
> > >inadequately and inaccurately documented hardware (USB) functionality.
> The
> > >rest of the device seemed easy enough to use (although considering there
> is
> > >no emulator support - I implemented a 115kbaud bit-bang serial port in
> > >software for this purpose).
> > >
> > >Atmel sent me some beta 43USB355 USB libraries with a wizard (I believe
> they
> > >may be properly released now), but I was reluctant to use them because
> their
> > >source code was not open (proprietary) - I don't believe using closed
> > >libraries is an industrial standard way of writing firmware. Especially
> with
> > >the library having such a fundamental influence on the firmware structure
> > >(e.g. no main function in your C code). They also didn't provide other
> > >source-code examples on how to use their USB hardware features - I
> couldn't
> > >even initialize the USB functionality.
> > >
> > >Anyway, to cut a long story short I decided it would be prudent to find a
> > >better documented USB device (where I had better knowledge and
> understanding
> > >of what was happening behind the scenes), until Atmel decides to better
> > >document the 43USB355 (and hopefully expose their library source code
> )...
> > >
> > >All this was a pity because the 43USB355 seems to be a very nice
> > >microprocessor with lots of promise. Currently it is probably very usable
> > >for anyone who is prepared to use Wizards and Proprietary Libraries (they
> > >claim their libraries are quite stable - I have no reason to doubt this).
> I
> > >just believe it still needs a bit of work from their side before it
> becomes
> > >a widely acceptable micro.
> > 
> > Next year we should see some decent USB micros from Atmel, the current
> crop 
> > is based around the original AVR core.  Hopefully Atmel (hint hint) will 
> > prepare both open (for gcc) and proprietary (for IAR C & others) libraries
> 
> > for the new batch of USB AVR's.  All this proprietary talk reminds me of 
> > the FPSLIC devices, is anybody still using them?
> > 
> > Jason Kyle
> > 
> > 
> > >Has anyone been successful with this device (without using their
> libraries).
> > >If anyone has had success and has source-code to share, I would be very
> > >interested to see some example code on the hardware interface.
> > >
> > >Bryan
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Keith Gudger [mailto:address@hidden
> > >Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 6:14 PM
> > >To: Tim Lapawa
> > >Cc: address@hidden
> > >Subject: Re: [avr-gcc-list] Using IAR compiled lib with GCC?
> > >
> > >I have USB libraries for the AT43USB35x USB AVRs, compiled for GCC.  I
> > >haven't gotten the 320 libraries compiled for GCC yet, but there is a
> > >io43u32x.h file, and one can set -mmcu=at43usb320. (WinAVR release, at
> > >least).
> > >
> > >I can send you the 35x files anytime, but I will have to compile the 32x
> > >libraries next week (when I'm back from vacation ;) ).
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Tim Lapawa wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello list,
> > > >
> > > > atmel send me a proprietary library for the AT43USB320 SDK kit.
> > > > It's an 4port USB Hub with integrated 8515 integrated.
> > > > But they do not want to send me the firmwares source code.
> > > > They send me libraries compiled with the IAR and the Imagecraft
> compiler.
> > > > Can I use these libs with the GNU toolchain?
> > > > I've read in this list, that the IAR and the GNU compiler use
> > > > different registers for Stack- and Framepointer.
> > > > And what is about parameter passing in function calls?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Greetings Tim Lapawa
> > > > --
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > avr-gcc-list mailing list
> > address@hidden
> > http://www.avr1.org/mailman/listinfo/avr-gcc-list
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
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