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Re: [Axiom-developer] Front page esthetic


From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Front page esthetic
Date: 01 Aug 2006 06:40:11 +0200

"Bill Page" <address@hidden> writes:

| Gaby,
| 
| I am glad to receive your comments about the Axiom Wike site.
| Please forgive me if some of my replies sound overly defensive.
| I admit I have a biased view - but that is what makes it even
| more important that other people comment about this stuff...
| 
| On July 31, 2006 9:33 PM you wrote:
| > 
| >   I find the front page of Axiom quite "visually heavy" -- and
| > many times I miss there the information I'm looking for.
| > 
| 
| Could you give an example of information that you were looking
| for but did not find? That sort of observation would be a big
| help.

For example, I was looking for research papers related to Axiom.  I
knew they were buried deeply somewhere in the hierarchical pages.

see the message I sent to axiom-mail.

| >   So, I took a look at few free software or open source 
| > computer algebra systems, to see what other people are up to.
| > 
| >    http://maxima.sourceforge.net/
| >    http://yacas.sourceforge.net/
| >    http://www.singular.uni-kl.de/
| >    http://turnbull.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/~gap/
| > 
| > All of them appears to me to be quite simple -- and I like that
| > simplicity.  Especially that of Maxima.  It takes very little
| > time to display -- compared to Axiom's.
| >
| 
| When I look at
| 
| http://maxima.sourceforge.net
| 
| My first reaction is: Hmmm, that doesn't look so different than the
| Axiom Wiki FrontPage... The time to display seems quite similar over
| a high speed connection and a reasonably fast system (AMD 3500+).
| 
| Differences I noticed:
| 
| 1) Maxima uses just a left side-bar but Axiom Wiki currently uses
|    both left and right side-bars, but just a left side-bar
|    navigation bar on all other pages.
| 
| 2) The Axiom Wiki FrontPage has more graphics including an example
|    Axiom output graphic.

That, from my perspective, contributes to the "visual load".

| 3) The Maxima web site is not a wiki.

I understand that.  I'm not sure I see the benefits of having the
frontpage being a wiki -- but that is a minor point I guess.

| 4) The Maxima web site has no search function.

that is a minus for them, and a plus for us :-)

| I don't find anything that makes the Maxima page seem simpler or
| that gives me the impression that information is more readily
| accessible. What am I missing?
| 
| When I looked at:
| 
| http://yacas.sourceforge.net
| 
| I thought:
| 
| 1) Yacas FrontPage doesn't say much and has only a minimal set
|    of links (no side-bars).

minimal is beautiful :-)

As I said, my preference goes to maxima's style.  Yacas' is at one end
of the spectrum.  I find that Axiom's holds the other end. 


| 2) Yacas uses a fixed left side-bar on other pages.
| 
| 3) Not a wiki.
| 
| 4) No search.
| 
| When I look at:
| 
| http://www.singular.uni-kl.de/
| 
| my reaction is:
| 
| 1) Looks a lot like Axiom Wiki.

but much simpler; visually.  It has direct links to what I would call
the essential stuff.

| 2) Has search.
| 
| 3) Has both left and right side-bars.
| 
| 4) Not a wiki.

Why is having the front-page as wiki a plus?
For all I know, only a handful of people can actually modify that page.
For other pages, due to irritating spams, the system has made it
complicated for good citizens to contribute changes.  I don't see a
difference between that and maintaining the website files as part of
the SVN or CVS repository.  The latter seems simpler to me -- but I'm
not proposing it.  Just observing.

[...]

| > Important to me is that the front-page must send the message that
| > this is related to research.  Yes, we have links to workshops and
| > all that.  But, most importantly, links to research papers related
| > to Axiom must be clearly and unambiguously linked from there --
| 
| Are you aware of the Axiom bibliography on the Axiom Portal?
| 
| http://portal.axiom-developer.org/refs

Yes, I do.

| Maybe this deserves a link on the Axiom Wiki FrontPage?

This is precisely what I suggested in the message I sent (yesterday I
believe) to axiom-mail.

| > I sent a message to axiom-mail to that effect but for some reasons
| > it never shows up :-(
| 
| I did not see any posting to axiom-mail. In fact I haven't seen
| any real postings to axiom-mail for some time - only spam (about
| 10 to 20 spam message per day). I wonder if this list is working
| properly? Most people seem to prefer the axiom-devel list. Maybe
| we have too many lists?

I don't think we have too many lists;  we're just misusing axiom-devel
:-) 

| > My suggestion would be to simplify the "visual load" of the
| > front-page.  I know that sounds a bit unhelpful but it is a
| > start of suggestion :-)
| 
| I am not clear on what you mean by "visual load". Are you
| referring to the layout? The color scheme?

yes, layout.  I think the color is OK.

| > People should be able to find the exciting/appealing things
| > about Axiom from its front-page.  We should not require them
| > to "dig through".
| > 
| 
| I agree.
| 
| Can you give an example of something that is exciting and/or
| appealing about Axiom that is not found on the FrontPage?
| 
| What constituents "dig through" to you?

For example, I know that if I log into the portal I can find the links
to the articles; but I don't know how many clicks it takes to find it
from the frontpage.

Yesterday, I was looking for something in the documentation of the
silver branch and realized there was a page for "development" (or
something like that) that is a hierarchical parent of the silver
stuff.

I don't propose to put all links ono the frontpage though :-)

| Do you mean just
| that they don't find the information on the FrontPage?
| How many clicks to finding the right information do you
| think is reasonable?

at most two.

| > To my mind the description of Axiom should mention
| > application to engineering, computer science -- not just
| > Physics or Mathematics.
| > 
| 
| I agree. I really would like to be able to list examples
| of all of these. Did you see any mention of physics on the
| FrontPage?

I saw it somewhere (that is from yesterday memory)... It turns out
that I read it from Axiom's SF page.  Sorry for that.

Actually, I'm interested in a publically accessible list of
applications of computer algebra in fields other than maths.   Do you
happen to know one?

| I would claim that computer science is clearly
| implied by the contents of the FrontPage even if not
| explicitly named.

we should be explicit about it -- it is part of "they should not dig
through." :-)

-- Gaby




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