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Re: locale specific ordering in EN_US -- why is a<A<b<B<y<Y<z<Z?

From: Johannes Meixner
Subject: Re: locale specific ordering in EN_US -- why is a<A<b<B<y<Y<z<Z?
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:11:50 +0200 (CEST)
User-agent: Alpine 2.00 (LNX 1167 2008-08-23)


On Jun 27 10:48 Paolo Bonzini wrote (excerpt):
Il 27/06/2013 09:33, Aharon Robbins ha scritto:

Fortunately, gawk and grep are already there, and I think the sed in
the git repo is as well.  Once Bash turns this on as default, the
world will definitely be a better place, independent of GLIBC.

I already explained this multiple times how this is completely delusional.

1) grep, sed, coreutils and so on will only use representation-based
range interpretation (I prefer this more neutral term that also explains
what's going on) if you use gnulib's regex implementation.  And by
default, they use glibc (I just checked grep).

2) Even if you switched the default, you would be at the mercy of
distros.  Distros prefer to avoid glibc replacements in single packages,
because then all bugs have to be fixed in many different places.  In
fact, I checked grep and Fedora builds it with --without-included-regex.

Right now I checked how grep is built in openSUSE via
"configure --disable-silent-rules --without-included-regex"
see the grep RPM package source files at


in particular the file grep.spec of Package grep


In contrast gawk is built in openSUSE without "--without-included-regex"
because it seems there is no such configure option for gawk.

See the file gawk.spec of Package gawk


I do not care too much which kind of locale specific ordering
or collating or regex behaviour is actually implemented
as long as it works consistently in grep, gawk, sed, bash,...

I would very much appreciate it if grep, gawk, sed, bash,...
could agree on one same behaviour and provide clear
documentation for those who compile it what the
"commonly accepted upstream behaviour" is so that
the binaries get built with that same behaviour
by all distributors who like to be in compliance
with upstream decisions.

Kind Regards
Johannes Meixner
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH -- Maxfeldstrasse 5 -- 90409 Nuernberg -- Germany
HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendoerffer

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