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Re: [Bug-gnupedia] Self-censorship and XML data.


From: Justin Zeigler
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnupedia] Self-censorship and XML data.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 06:36:55 -0700
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.18 i686; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001103

Light Bulb!
Why not place everything in to a  que to be approved? An Article must be
checked by atleast x 'users' and by x/2 'maintainers' (x is an appropriate number
against usage patterns) This would develop to where people would bias rate
an article and that (the bias rating) would be published while still in the
approval que. Then add some simple rules in to the database to where if
someone negatively reviews an article because of 'foo' an email can be sent to
those who want to moderate that kind of views. i.e. I read an article on
creationism and am an atheist, I put a negative stamp on the article, an email
is immedietly sent to someone who previously asked to be informed of such an
occurance and has the oppurtunty to review the article without having to search for it. Also, if such a flag is set the DB freezes the article and waits for the first
response/review from one of the people email was sent to.

This might require a new field in whatever format is used, maybe something
like <caveat>creationism, christian, catholic</caveat> so that there is method of
looking for 'hot' topics

Justin Zeigler

Rob Scott wrote:

This is why we need a positive only feedback, so that
people who don't agree with something or people who
don't believe something cant just mark things down


--- Hook <address@hidden> wrote: > Depends
on the moderator I suppose, and with the

model that seems to be
evolving here, that's the problem .. acceptance is a
personal issue.  If
(for example) I'm a moderator who believes firmly in
creationism, then I'm
going to "mark down" articles about evolution,
astrophysics, cosmology and
dozens of other subjects which impinge on that view.

That's just not going to fit in with the stated aims
of gnupedia (or
Alexandria or whatever). So, the first problem is
chosing who gets to be
moderator, and thereby influences which articles get
accepted for the
encyclopedia.  The easy way out is to accept
everything other than the
obvious spam, commercial messages and other similar
(in this context) junk.
However, I don't think that's going to help in the
long run because it's
going to dilute the content and overall use of the
encyclopedia. After all,
it's far simpler to write an article which is short,
lightweight and has
factual errors than one which is well researched and
well written.  Again,
look at Usenet as a model of what happens with
uncontrolled content.

To directly answer your question, if I was
moderator, then I'd impose my
views (and hence limits) on the articles which got
accepted.  If we're
talking about pornography, then there are a few
areas which I wouldn't want
included, and would try very hard to prevent. However, if you're thinking
of material which discusses pornography from a
social viewpoint (like the
Kinsey report), then that's clearly different.

It's a dilema which has two troublesome extermes --
(1) censorship with all
that implies and (2) freedom to include *any*
material some of which will be
illegal somewhere.  Getting the balance is going to
be exceptionally
difficult and, as far as I can see, is going to
involve compromise.

The issue of potentially illegal content *must* be
addressed soon,
particularly with the suggested open framework for
submissions.

Paul


Rob Scott wrote:

Hmm yes i see what you mean now.
Do you think something thats cosidered slightly
pornographic would get accepted by a moderator?
Thats not a rhetorical question, just a question.

tsk. lawyers, damn their oily hides!


--- Hook <address@hidden> wrote: > Rob Scott

wrote :

Yes, but if our idea for moderators were used,

the

sort of people moderating would be the same

people

that read the 'pedia, so in theory cultural
differences should be ironed out.

It would all depend on how the moderator

system

worked.

Pornography is a particularly difficult issue.

The

legal definition varies
enormously, even amongst westerised countries

(look

at Denmark and the UK to
see large differences), and it vaies even more
amongst two individuals.
I've met those who consider models in swimsuits
pornographic for example.

This project either has to recognise that the
*legal* definition will trip
us up someday, or invoke the same kind of
self-censorship that the net
itself will have to deal with one day in the not

too

distant future.  Note
that I'm referring to *any* material which is

legal

in one place, and not in
another - drugs and pornography are two of the

most

emotive.

The idea of not censoring material is a good

one,

but there *has* to be some
form of legal protection, if only for the
organisation which takes the legal
role of publisher.  Or is that going ot be

devolved

too?  Any group which
wants to allow *any* material to be published,
indexed and easily referred
to has to recognise that some of the content

that we

would like to see
available is going to be illegal somewhere.

It's

easy for westerners to
poke fun at the Chinese government for their
attitude to falungong, but it
illustrates an issue which we daren't ignore.

What are the ramifications of making publically
available something that a
powerful government or corporate doesn't like?

This

is more important that
whether ot not XML is used - it defines the

limits

for the encyclopedia (or
library, which looks to be a more accurate
definition).

Paul


--- Hook <address@hidden> wrote: > > I

disagree

slightly, in that as it is a "free"

project

I think any article that is slightly

informative

should go in. So even if it contains

nudity,

or

ideologies, or large opinions, I think it

should

be

in. Afterall, if you want a simple

"definition"

style

article you can always go to Nupedia. It'd

be

cool

if

Alexandria gave a researcher a really in

depth,

diverse resource for their subject. And I

don't

think

it should be a "vote" or you'll lose all

the

marginalised ideas and works, and it will

become a

reflection of the people who vote. If you

simply

say

every article just needs one "yes" vote to

get

through, then nonsense and blatant porn

etc.

won't

get

through, but anything else will.
It would make Alexandria a veyr rich

resource.

Sorry Tom, I'm playing devil's advocate here

..

but

define nonsense?  I
could point you to a large number of Usenet

posts

which (to me) fit the
bill, but I just know that others with

different

beliefs have different
views.

Differntiating between unpopular views -
creation/evolution, UFOs/natural
phenomena etc - and opinions which, to most

people,

would seem to be so far
away from reality that they rank as fiction

isn't as

easy as it sounds.

=== message truncated ===


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