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bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead
From: |
Eli Zaretskii |
Subject: |
bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' |
Date: |
Tue, 31 Dec 2013 10:27:54 +0200 |
> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:58:31 -0800
> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
> CC: 16292@debbugs.gnu.org, grfz@gmx.de
>
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
> > (names of people) so using Latin-1 doesn't hamper users'
> > ability to read the manual in any way
>
> Most of the non-ASCII words are people's names, but many are not,
> and often ASCIIfying these would hurt the manual.
> These include symbols (e.g., "¬"), examples of encoding
> ("@samp{Naïve} is encoded as @samp{=?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve?=}"),
> calendars ("Bahá'í"), the names of GNU programs ("真 Gnus"),
> and configuration examples ("écrit" in email configuration).
I don't think we care about encoding of a handful of words, as long as
the bulk of the manual, including markup and quotes, is legible. I
only mentioned Latin-1 because it seemed to cover most of the
non-ASCII characters. But I don't insist on it. Neither do I insist
on a single-byte encoding of those few words and names; in particular,
UTF-8 will do -- but only for the non-ASCII text in the manuals.
> Nowadays, on GNUish and POSIXish systems in the Emacs target
> audience, there's more usage of UTF-8 than of Latin-1. On
> Ubuntu and Fedora, for example, the default locale for US
> English is en_US.utf8. Hence, converting info files to
> Latin-1 would hurt standalone info users in the typical
> setup on GNUish and POSIXish platforms.
It hurts them in a very small number of places, most or all of which
don't affect in any way the ability of the reader to read and
understand the presented material.
As I say above, I won't object to having the non-ASCII words encoded
in UTF-8, as long as it doesn't affect the (single and double) quote
characters, and any other characters/strings (like '#' and '=>') we
use for describing the Emacs and Lisp features.
The problem here is that @documentencoding is virulent when you use
UTF-8: it affects the quotes, not just non-ASCII text in the Texinfo
sources. This is unlike any other value of @documentencoding. And
that is the only problem that bothers me, and IMO should bother us
all.
Perhaps a possible solution would be to customize OPEN_QUOTE_SYMBOL
and CLOSE_QUOTE_SYMBOL (although I'm not sure it affects double
quotes), or edit the Info files with Sed to replace Unicode quote
characters with some ASCII characters. The rest of the non-ASCII text
can be left intact, in UTF-8.
> Perhaps Microsoft Windows users are different, and typically
> use Latin-1 or some other unibyte encoding.
This has nothing to do with Windows; I first hit the problem on a
GNU/Linux machine that was configured with a non-UTF locale. The
reason I never saw the problem since last March is that I still use
makeinfo from Texinfo 4.13, which doesn't affect the quote characters
when @documentencoding of UTF-8 is specified. So the Info files I
produce when I build Emacs don't suffer from this misfeature.
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', (continued)
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', Paul Eggert, 2013/12/30
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', Eli Zaretskii, 2013/12/30
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', Andreas Schwab, 2013/12/30
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', Eli Zaretskii, 2013/12/30
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', Andreas Schwab, 2013/12/30
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', Eli Zaretskii, 2013/12/31
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', Paul Eggert, 2013/12/31
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `', Paul Eggert, 2013/12/31
- bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `',
Eli Zaretskii <=