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bug#31605: 25.3; tramp-terminal-type too obscure

From: Michael Albinus
Subject: bug#31605: 25.3; tramp-terminal-type too obscure
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 18:26:22 +0200
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux)

Eli Barzilay <address@hidden> writes:

Hi Eli,

> Thanks!  However, I think that it would be better to mention that it is
> fine to use a different value -- instead of discouraging them.

It might work, yes. But I wouldn't recommend it. For most of the Tramp
users, the default settings are OK.

>>       Another possibility is to check the environment variable
>>       ‘INSIDE_EMACS’.  [...]
> This doesn't help for the common case of ssh.  (In fact, this was what I
> originally though about using, but configuring ssh/sshd to pass
> INSIDE_EMACS is a PITA to manage.)  I'm not saying that it shouldn't be
> mentioned, just that it's not too helpful...

??? It is Tramp, which sets this variable in the remote shell
environment. There's nothing to do for you. Or do I miss something?

> But this is exactly the problem: "dumb" is used in many contexts,
> including in `M-x shell`.  This means that if I follow what you're
> recommending, I end up with a crippled `M-x shell` experience since I
> lose my useful prompt there.  OTOH, I can't imagine that anything that
> tramp uses would rely on terminfo, which is why I suggested the above.

The majority of Tramp users does not apply "M-x shell" and friends. They
are just using Tramp for remote file handling.

And Tramp has always problems with whatever esacape seuences are around,
that I call it an advantage when a dumb TERM simplifies my
life. Speaking as maintainer.

It is still possible that you reconfigure everything, and thanks again
that you have told me that it needs better documentation. But I'm not
conviced it will be better to change the defaults.

Best regards, Michael.

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