[Top][All Lists]

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

bug#33796: 27.0.50; Use utf-8 is all our Elisp files

From: Paul Eggert
Subject: bug#33796: 27.0.50; Use utf-8 is all our Elisp files
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:49:44 -0800
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1

On 12/20/18 8:06 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> my opinion should also count, right?

Of course, although my impression was that you weren't expressing an opinion and were soliciting opinions. If your opinion is that we should not make the change, then of course that counts.

> we need the opinion of people
> who might be actually affected by the proposed change,

I assume you mean that we need the opinion of people who would be affected _negatively_. Stefan and I would actually be affected _positively_ by the proposed change, for the reasons we stated.

> All 3 of us simply don't care,

No, actually I do care. Non-UTF-8 source files are a real annoyance for me, on a fairly regular basis. Stefan seems to care too, though I suspect he doesn't care as much as I do.

>  . Displaying HELLO doesn't show "gibberish", it shows UTF-8 encoded
>    text with pure-ASCII markup.

You're right. My apologies: when I wrote "gibberish" I was looking at the output of "git diff emacs-26..master etc/HELLO", which does indeed display gibberish but that's not the current encoding's fault.

> But since in your opinion the current situation is a
>    "disaster", you seem to be saying that we should go back to ISO-2022?

Not at all, but I do think we should cut down on the unnecessary markup in that file. The markup should be used only when it helps. Text like "<x-charset><param>mule-unicode-0100-24ff</param> </x-charset>" is not helping anybody; the file should just contain " " there. Most of the markup in that file is not necessary for proper display, and just gets in the way when using tools other than Emacs.

>  . By the above reasoning, if Emacs is enhanced to interpret HTML/XML
>    and show typefaces instead of markup, you will see that as a
>    regression and complain that raw HTML files are "gibberish"?

I hope Emacs doesn't do any such thing by default. I often use Emacs to edit .html and .xml files, and if it attempted to render these files by default I would be inconvenienced. Presumably there would be an option to keep the old behavior, and I'd use that option.

>  . You have find-file-literally to show you HELLO exactly as any
>    text-mode tool will see it

No, because find-file-literally shows hard-to-read stuff like this:

</x-charset><x-charset><param>greek-iso8859-7</param>Greek (\316\265\316\273\316\273\316\267\316\275\316\271\316\272\316\254) \316\223\316\265\316\271\316\254 \317\203\316\261\317\202

which differs from (and is even worse than) what an ordinary tool like git or cat shows:

</x-charset><x-charset><param>greek-iso8859-7</param>Greek (ελληνικά)   Γειά σας

It would be better to remove this particular markup, so that git etc. would show this:

Greek (ελληνικά)    Γειά σας

which is what Emacs ordinarily shows.

>  . No experience in Enriched mode is needed to edit HELLO, you just
>    need to apply text properties (via facemenu.el commands or the
>    menu-bar's Edit->Text Properties menu).  And these properties are
>    optional.

Let's leave most of them out then, as they're not working well in etc/HELLO. I don't use that menu, but I took your hint and just now tried it, by selecting the abovementioned word "ελληνικά" and menuing to Edit > Text Properties > Describe Properties, but all it said was 'Text content at position 1530: There are text properties here: unknown ("x-charset")'. This missed the point that the word's character set is greek-iso8859-7 which is a special hack that hints to Emacs (and nobody else, I guess? I couldn't find documentation for this stuff even in the Emacs manuals) that the text should be displayed with a Greek font instead of the same Greek font that Emacs would be using anyway. And I didn't see an easy way to see visually that the this (unnecessary) <x-charset> hint is misplaced, since it should be placed so that it applies only to the Greek text and not to the surrounding English text in the same line.

reply via email to

[Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread]