bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot

[João Távora]

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 9:19 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> > Your solution doesn't "give me what I want".  If I add 'eglot-update' it
> > will work as a single command on every Emacs version from Emacs 26.3
> > onwards.  This new command you're proposing is for Emacs 29 only (and
> > will presumably be deprecated soon).
>
> Since you started by proposing a patch to package.el, that solution
> had the same issues with older Emacsen.

In onler Emacsen, M-x package-install works.  I was going to also propose
that M-x package-install on Emacs 29 offers to upgrade.  But if even a
"fixed" (IMO, of course) M-x package-update isn't accepted, then I won't
even bother proposing fixing M-x package-install on Emacs 29.

> IOW, that is a separate
> problem.  In particular, Eglot is not bundled in those older Emacsen,
> so package.el should support updating Eglot just fine for those older
> versions.

Yes, but the command that two users using, say, Emacs 28 and Emacs 29
will be different.  And happen to think that's unfortunate.

> > So this is "what I want": smooth user experience with no new commands or
> > at least simple ones that don't require understanding emacs dev
> > concepts.
>
> If we want the solution be general, rather than having a separate
> update command for each core package, then there's a limit to what we
> can do to give this smooth user experience to users of older Emacsen.
> However, I don't think in this case there's a problem, see above.

I don't think this "limit" really exists.  As far as I understand, if
I had detected this problem earlier or your perception of the stability
of my patch for emacs-29 were different, then this problem would be well
on its way to non-existence.

> > I think 'package-update-core-package' is just unfortunate, because the
> > regular user doesn't care what the heck is core, and can you blame her?
>
> I disagree with your assessment.  Moreover, I think such a command is
> needed anyway, for reasons other than the ones which prompted this bug
> report.
>
> > I can't stop you from adding it, of course.  Have you thought how it
> > should behave when the package is no longer a core package, i.e. has
> > already updated?
>
> Yes, see my other messages.

I can't well understand what the behaviour will be, I'll wait to see the
final version.

> > I have to ask (though I can guess the answer): may I add 'eglot-update'
> > anyway to emacs-29 as a no-brainer shortcut in the meantime?
>
> I'd prefer not to have package-specific upgrade commands.  I hope we
> will soon add to package.el on emacs-29 a new command that will allow
> users to update core packages, including Eglot, and that will solve
> the problem for users of Emacs 29 and later, where Eglot is bundled.

FTR I would also 100% also "prefer not to have package-specific upgrade
commands" :-) That would be my preference too. But again, I really have
to ask :-), may I add it or would you revert the commit immediately?
Again, I'm just looking to have a congruent, simple way to tell users
how to ensure latest Eglot version without needing to know if they have
Emacs 29, 27 or 47.  This command, while also not being my first "preference",
fulfills that requirement.  Can we have it?  It's only 4 lines of code.

João