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Re: Réf. : [Bug-gnubg] Current categorizat ion of doubling mistakes (new

From: olivier croisille
Subject: Re: Réf. : [Bug-gnubg] Current categorizat ion of doubling mistakes (new thread)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:20:38 +0200

From: address@hidden
To: "olivier croisille" <address@hidden>
CC: address@hidden
Subject: Réf. : [Bug-gnubg] Current categorization of doubling mistakes (new thread)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:53:09 +0200

The double categorization has been changed a few hours before your mail
(see mail from Holger).

The wording is much clearer now IMO, plus Gnubg should not have any radius pb for categorizing mistakes.

No : GNUbg was telling you that you forgot to double, and that you were
closer to CP than to DP. It was a take since you were below CP, like the
(very) new categorization stresses more. TG has nothing to do here.

You didn't get me : I do know all this, but I was trying to have the reasoning of a beginner/someone that discovers Gnubg analysis for the first time. Such a person definitely could think that TG *has* someting to do here, the words "around Cash Point" being used. The (new)² categorization solves this by adding the word 'below' and 'above'.

>In BG, you want to send over cubes
>as *efficient* as possible, in other words, as close to your CP as possible.

I disagree : if possible, you should double as soon as you are above DP
(and below TG).

Would you like to play with me this way for a few €? hmmmm, let me think, not so few actually, let's raise the stakes :-))) obviously, *I* will double my way if you don't mind, that is, as close to my CP as possible :-)

If you reached your DP already, but there is no chance that you will lose your market on the next exchange of rolls, then you should refrain from doubling. As long as your opponent has a Take on the next roll, no matter what you roll/he rolls now, you lose *nothing* by waiting. Meanwhile, you do lose something very important by doubling now wrongly (eventhough you're above DP), and that is cube possession.

Even when you have market losers, you should evaluate their number and their strength. You can have just one or two market losers -the usual jokers- and still correctly refrain from doubling, because these limited market losers don't compensate for giving up cube possession.

>In the position referred to, my Doubling Point was 46.3% and my CP 68.4% :
>have a guess, in 90% of cases, which one I will be closer to when I

You should have reduobled as soon has your W% was above 46.3% : that's the
optimal play accoriding to the underlying model.

Gee, I think you have a serious misconception here. What you're saying would only be true in a last roll situation or if was to jump from 'around DP' to 'around CP' in just one roll. This can hapen, but very rarely, as it implies a *huge* volatility.

But I still don't grasp the efficiency stuff (I'm not saying it's wrong ...).

Hehehehe, here we go, raise the stakes!!!! :-))) (couldn't resist, no offence intended, obviously)

>Incidentally, Gnubg also went wrong a couple of rolls later in that very
>same game, when I decided to redouble :
>Position ID : 29qAAQybbQwZAA
>Cube analysis
>2-ply cubeless equity  +0,447 (Money:  +0,441)
>   69,6%   9,2%   0,1% -  30,4%   4,4%   0,0%
>Cubeful equities:
>1. No double            +0,752
>2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,248)
>3. Double, take         +0,681  ( -0,071)
>Proper cube action: No redouble, take (22,4%)
>Gnubg classified this as 'Wrong double around CP' eventhough as you can see, >it's a huge take, so cashing is not even an issue unless the opponent makes
>a triple whopper (a 0.319 blunder).

[You meant "missed" and not "wrong", right ?]
Same as bove, the (very) new categorization would give "missed double below CP"
(aka Double/Take).

No, I meant "wrong" : I did double, and Gnubg considers it to be NO double/Take by 0.071, so it was classified as 'Wrong double around CP'


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