Re : [Bug-gnubg] How fast can you cheat??

[Massimiliano Maini]

----- Message d'origine ----
> De : Michael Petch <address@hidden>
> À : Frank Berger <address@hidden>; "address@hidden" <address@hidden>
> Envoyé le : Vendredi, 21 Août 2009, 22h13mn 00s
> Objet : Re: [Bug-gnubg] How fast can you cheat??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 21/08/09 11:37 AM, "Frank Berger" wrote:
> 
> > This is absolute nonsens.
> > Why? quite easy. Any NN I'm aware of is presented the position to
> > evaluate it.
> > Therefore it never sees the dice and can therefore not learn a pattern.
> > 
> 
> I agree and disagree. The NN never sees the dice - agreed. However  I
> believe an NN is indirectly guided by the dice. If you took the neural net
> trainer and had Gnubg play itself again but this time set up the random
> number source to throw away all the doubles I am pretty sure how the Bot
> learns to play the game over time will change.

But gnubg has also been trained with supervides training from 2ply results
and from rollout results (have to duoble check this). Here I don't see the
effect of "learning the pattern".

To prove that gnug can predict rolls you should show a position that gnubg
plays differently if the games arrives to this position via different rolls
sequences. This is impossible, since you can just enter the position and
gnubg will just play it the same way,  no matter how you reached it, since
it is stateless (wrt to rolls).

MaX.