Re: Menu (Was: Re: Unimplemented AppKit classes)

[Nicola Pero]

> > Obviosuly I dont advocate writing an interface wiuthout seeing what it
> > looks like, that would be ridiculous. But is the dragging and shuffling of
> > items graphicly that I think is a misatke - because most of the time
> > that isnt theproblem you are truying to fix. If you want all yoru text
> > fields left aligned then the solution is to represent that cocnept as such
> > in the file- not to shuuflle them all over so they happen to line up
> > visually ? Thats completely the antithesis of object orientated programming.
> > 
> 
> ... then you tell to the 'graphical editor' what is the relationship between
>  those objects and how they should change their position and size
> according to their contents. I do not see the problem of 'specifying
> that in the file', only that Gorm cannot do that *at this time*. It can
> be solved by adding some information about object placement and
> relationships into gorm file and apply it at the time of loading.
> 
> If this is not yet implemented in Gorm, it does not mean, that the idea 
> of visual editing is bad.

The idea of visual editing is great, and Renaissance is going to have
that! :-)

It will have its visual editor.  It is meant to have it.  It's incomplete
without it.

The visual editor will not use encoding/decoding, but Renaissance to
read/write.


> > Shifting to using Renaissance is the same sort of shift as going from
> > a Word processor to using LaTeX. But when you are usedto thinkin about
> > the contnet rather than the appearance it is a lot faster... and there
> > are big wins in terms of portability; which is where we came in - the
> > unportability of IB / Gorm files.
> > 
> I am not going to judge what is better, if word processor or latex, because 
> it really depends on the work you want to do. Anyway, tex is more desktop 
> publishing system, and WP is just that what the name says - a word processor. 
> Two noncomparable applications. But latex is just a way/language of 
> describing documents. For sure I can bet with you, that with some TeX visual 
> editor you can get better results... Tex and Renaissance are just languages.
> 
> Moreover, you have to take care about appearance and usability more than 
> the contents when you are designing user interface.
> 
> For the portability see my previous comment about keyed archiving and 
> readable file.

Keyed archiving will not give you portability.


> > What you really want is a graphical editor for Renaissance files which
> > allows visuallayout, but using the Renaissance objecst to do it. Then
> > thats the perfect soution I feel for both parties.
> > 
> 
> Or take it from other point of view ... I want a way of describing position 
> and size relationshps between objects in Gorm :)

You want a modified Gorm which uses Renaissance instead of
encoding/decoding.

You want it ... and as soon as I can heap up enough time to start this
job, you'll have it. :-)