Re: GWorskpace (un)usability

[Stefan Urbanek]

Hi,

First of all, I would like to apologize for negative sound of my email. I think 
that GWorkspace is a nice piece of software and that is the reason i would like 
to use it. I just wanted to point out several inconveniences. (see the bottom 
of this email).

On 2003-06-14 12:52:17 +0200 Enrico Sersale <enrico@imago.ro> wrote:

> On 2003-06-13 22:22:51 +0300 Stefan Urbanek <urbanek@host.sk> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would like to use GWorkspace as my default file manager, however...
> >
> > First thing is that annoying me most is the several seconds delay on gworkspace 
> > launch caused by waiting for Backgrounder to be launched.
>
> I get about 6 secs to launch both the apps... Anyway, I suppose that the user 
> doesn't need to launch GW many times; usually he leave the app running.

6 empty seconds is too much as a response to program launch. I launch it and i 
would like to start using it immediately. Would it be possible to wait for that 
connection in background or to use some notification mechanism?

<snip>

> > Moreover, there is that spacetaking icon of backgrounder application.
> > To solve this problem i would suggest to remove any required 
> > all-the-time-running background task and use tools instead. I was looking on my 
> > copy of NeXTSTEP and i've seen that there were tools for doing various tasks 
> > like copying/moving, size measuring, compression, searching... Launching one 
> > task per operation seems to me to be better idea. Tasks can run in parallel and 
> > thus we can gain speed when working with different devices.
>
> GWorkspace uses tools for copying/moving/deleting/etc. (fopexec), searching 
> (findfile), showing contents (ContentViewers/PdfViewer, for example), etc...
>
> Regarding Backgrounder:
> Gworkspace is about 3 years old and, in all this time, I think that I've tested 
> all the possible solutions for the file operations: tools, threads, various 
> things added to the run loop, etc. The solution that you propose has been used 
> in the firsts versions of GW. In all the cases, the principal problem has been 
> the fact that the app is slowed down by the work of updating, in the file 
> operation window, the progress indicator and the fields with the file names for 
> each file moved, copied, etc.
> Now, with Backgrounder, all the work is done by this app and GWorkspace remains 
> responsive.

i had similar problem of responsiveness by very frequent updates. i have 
created another thread to handle notifications and therefore the main thread 
was freed. what do you think about this solution? I think that there is some 
solution for that problem (and be able to have file operation window IN 
gwrokspace and not in some separate application).

btw. would it be possible to remove that backgrounder application icon?

> > 2. Other thing is a bug: when i open new folder, nothing happens and i see the 
> > contents of parent folder.
>
> When you create a new folder a directory named "NewFolder" (or NewFolder1, 2, 3, etc., if 
> the name is already used) is created. Then the browser matrix scroll to show the new entry, the 
> cell is selected and a folder icon appears in the icons path. Here you can edit the name from 
> "NewFolder" to what you want.

Try this: create a new folder or have a folder without any files in it. Go to 
any other folder and go back to the parent folder of that empty folder. then 
click on icon of new folder. the path view will show that you are in the empty 
folder, but the icon view is not updated. (you have to resize the window to see 
the empty folder)

> Again, are you sure that you are not using GWorkspace 0.1? :-)

sure, i'm using GW from CVS

> > 3. I cannot use Browser view, i am getting:
> > Error 
> > (objc-load):/usr/GNUstep/System/Applications/GWorkspace.app/Resources/BrowserViewer.viewer/ix86/linux-gnu/gnu-gnu-gnu/BrowserViewer:
> >  undefined symbol: __objc_class_name_BrowserViewerPref
>
> The browser viewer is a bundle and that object is a NSView that comes from this 
> bundle and is used by GW to show the browser viewer preferences. Each viewer is 
> a bundle and uses this protocol.
> GWorkspace installs all its bundles, viewers, preferences, etc., in the main 
> bundle, but they are also automatically installed in 
> $GNUSTEP_SYSTEM_ROOT/Library/Bundles. Theorically GW ignores these objects, 
> but, in your case, I suggest to clean all these things and also the main app 
> bundle.
> Then, take a recent version (better from cvs) and install this.

Current CVS version will do this error. I've cleaned everything few minutes 
ago, recompiled and installed.
If i do ls -l 
/usr/GNUstep/System/Applications/GWorkspace.app/Resources/BrowserViewer.viewer/ix86/linux-gnu/gnu-gnu-gnu/
-rwxrwxr-x    1 me       me          52655 Jun 14 19:14 BrowserViewer*

see the date. ... when i openapp GWorkspace i see this among other NSLogs:
Error 
(objc-load):/usr/GNUstep/System/Applications/GWorkspace.app/Resources/BrowserViewer.viewer/ix86/linux-gnu/gnu-gnu-gnu/BrowserViewer:
 undefined symbol: __objc_class_name_BrowserViewerPref
...


> > 4. Print... menu item is confusing. I would expect it to print selected file 
> > with appropriate application, not currently focused view.
>
> "Print" should print the window if no file is selected and tell to the 
> appropriate application to print the file if a file is selected.
> But, where are these applications? The applications are 90% wrapper for X 
> applications. So, for the moment...

ok

> > 6. What do you think about renaming GWorkspace to use something withoutprefix? 
> > if Workspace.app is taken by NEXT/Apple, there are still many possibilities 
> > that can reflect what this application is doing: Workplace.app, Desktop.app, 
> > Browser.app (from file/object browser), ...
>
> No problem! Choose a name and I'll rename GWorkspace.

Workplace? :-)

> Probably, in this occasion, I'll also assign GWorkspace to the FSF, as 
> suggested by David Ayers.
> (Excuse me, David, if I report here some line from a private mail)
> "
> ...
> First of all I'd like to thank you for all the work you put in GWorkspace!  Now as 
> GWorkspace is the "official GNUstep workspace manager" I keep wondering about 
> something...
>
> "Why is an official GNUstep application not part of the GNUstep project?"
> ...
> "
>
> This only to say that, if GWorkspace is so "unusable", why it should become "part of 
> the GNUstep project"?

ah, ok. my second apology, the word unusable was not appropriate. it is 
unusable for me. as i said, gw is a piece of software that we need and you have 
put of your work in it. And I fully agree that such application should become a 
part of GNUstep project. It is part of the gnustep environment anyway 
(NSWorkspace class).

> > Workspace should be The Entrance to the GNUstep Environment. (G)Workspace 
> > should provide good user experience. I do not think that scaring away users 
> > right at the front gate is good for gnustep.
>
> Due of my very bad English, I've just looked in the dictionary for the world 
> "scare" and I must say that I dont like the mean. But I don't want to polemize.
> I repeat: get a new version, install it correctly and all the stuff will work.

I have CVS version from today: Jun 14 2003 19:00 CET.

> GWorkspace has *many* users. And it helps in finding new GNUstep users; If I 
> look in my mail, I can find about two mail/week written by people that is 
> trying to build it without GNUstep...

It should have more :), I think that GW should become integrated part of 
GNUstep environment. If i did not wanted that, i would not send an email of 
'not content user'. Unsatisfaction should be a step towards improvement.

Best regards,

Stefan
--
http://urbanek.host.sk

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you 
win.
- Mahatma Gandhi