Re: Debian and SimplyGNUstep

[Chad Hardin]

On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 07:57 PM, Matthias Klose wrote:
> Chad Hardin writes:
> > Because the install locations are not ideal for a user-centered 
> > GNUstep
> > based desktop system.
> > That's the main reason.
> > GNUstep really doesn't fit into the FHS mode.  With KDE and GNOME you
> > can "hide" the actual program file locations with their (yucky) 
> > "Start"
> > menu type system.  GNUstep has no concept, you launch programs by
> > double-clicking the actual Application itself, not via some "Start"
> > menu abstraction.
>
> well, what's the difference between clicking an icon on the desktop or
> on the dock? why does have wmaker to care about the Applications
> folder in / or somewhere else?

Uhm, this really has nothing to do with wmaker, or a window manager at 
all.
It's about the user navigating the filesystem to launch applications 
and open documents.


> > You can't expect the typical user to launch Applications by going to
> > /usr/lib/GNUstep/System/Applications, that just won't happen.  Plus,
> > even expereince users probably wouldn't want to do that.
> >
> > Much easier to simply go to /Applications or /System/Applications and
> > launch your app.
>
> well, I never go there. either I double click on the desktop (and I
> don't care about the locations), or I use openapp from the command
> line (not caring about the location).
>
> What Debian currently misses, is from my point of view:
>
> - a setup for display managers (xdm, gdm, kdm), so a user can choose
>   at the login prompt a GNUstep session and X starts up with a GNUstep
>   desktop (before properly sourcing GNUstep.sh, starting GNUstep user
>   daemons, etc ...)

interesting.  Like I've said before, I'm new to Debian.  Is the ability 
to switch this behavior kept in a configuration file in /etc?  That is 
the way most of the other distros seem to do it.
Is your idea something like a text-mode selection that is called just 
before xdm/gdm/kdm is started?  That would be interesting, along with 
an option to stop asking, if wanted, and default to a particular login 
manager from then on.


> - a GNUstep meta packages containing dependencies to packages which
>   make up a basic GNUstep desktop.

Nice idea.


> These two would make for a much better user expericence, any
> volunteers?


I would but I'm still in the process of learning the system.  I don't 
even know how to create a meta-package just yet.
Can you point me to an example of a metapackage so I can apt-get source 
it?

> > > - assume he makes his packages for one architecture, he's missing
> > >   six other archs.
> >
> > Shouldn't the .dsc sources I'm creating be able to be made into binary
> > packages of any architecture?  I'm brand new to Debian package making,
> > but this seems to be the case.
>
> If you take care, yes. But who builds these?


Whoever wants to.  I suppose if there is a need someone will build it 
for their arch.

> > > The thing he doesn't like are the unusual/unfriendly places (called
> > > the Unix File System Hierarchy (FHS)). Some time before the KDE 
> > > people
> > > didn't like, now someone from the GNUstep community doesn't like
> > > it. If you know of a better schema which fits the FHS, please let us
> > > know.
> >
> > FHS is great for the typical UNIX system, and I don't want to change 
> > it
> > all, with the exception of the GNUstep stuff.
>
> I still think, this can be done by some clever UI abstraction,
> provided you target a "user".


Why the need to be "clever" when it can just be done straight out?


> Chad Hardin writes:
> > Yep, I'm not saying I want to inject non-FHS compliant packages for
> > GNUstep into Debian.  I'm just saying that I'm gonna be making a lot 
> > of
> > GNUstep related packages which install in non-FHS locations, in my own
> > repository.  and, while I'm at it, I may as well contribute the work I
> > do to the Debian packages, which install the Debian way.
>
> If you do this, please submit changes to the Debian bug tracking
> system for changes in the Debian subdir, however I think you should
> try to reach your goals on the basis of a Debian setup.


I'm sorry, no offense really, but i just don't think that is possible.  
I'm more than willing to contribute GNUstep packages for Debian which 
follow the Debian rules though,

>         Matthias
>
>
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